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FAA warns Musk that he is building Super Heavy launch tower without permission

reuters.com

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Re: FAA warns Musk that he is building Super Heavy launch tower without permission

#51

Post by breckenedge »

wil421 wrote: post #45
edrxty wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is the tower is intended to be as high as 480ft. This is significant as that means it will end up being listed on charts and factored into any nearby instrument approach procedures. All that said, this is a case where the FAA probably shouldn't be dragging their heels. It's trivial (single digit minutes) to figure out what this impacts and shouldn't be more than a day to come to a conclusion and generate a…

A small untowered airport seems like exactly the type of place where someone could fly into a nearby tower.

It’s 15 miles away. No instrument approach I’ve flown is that low that far away. Never would I ever fly below 500 feet AGL in IFR conditions and not on final approach.

Re: FAA warns Musk that he is building Super Heavy launch tower without permission

#52

Post by gnarbarian »

better to say sorry than ask permission. I know an awful lot about the FAA. Progress demands risk and the FAA is a pathologically risk averse agency. Many people in the agency understand this but outwardly must tow the party line. therefore when the FAA is being unreasonable I believe SpaceX should ignore them and push the envelope.

Re: FAA warns Musk that he is building Super Heavy launch tower without permission

#53

Post by hourislate »

barbazoo wrote: post #30
Recurecur wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One major problem with bureaucracy is that it will create issues to justify itself. I'm sure there's no real problem, it's just the government getting some PR and potentially some money via some kind of license/permit fee. Musk and SpaceX have no desire to hurt anyone, that would impact their plans. At this point this country would greatly benefit from less government involvement in just about everything. /libertaria…

> I'm sure there's no real problem, it's just the government getting some PR and potentially some money via some kind of license/permit fee. What makes you so sure? There's airports and heli pads nearby. It's the FAAs job to keep aviation safe.

Tell that to the folks who were on the 737 Max....

Re: FAA warns Musk that he is building Super Heavy launch tower without permission

#54

Post by hourislate »

The FAA is in a pissing match with SpaceX. They are an organization that was setup to deal with 1 or 2 space launches a year. They don't know how to operate to accommodate the amount of launches SpaceX wants to have. So instead of changing or modernizing they flex. The old I'll show them who's in charge, will drive them out of business with paperwork and a bureaucracy. Who do they think they are wanting to expand Human civilization to Mars! Musk should just pay them off the way Boeing did.

Re: FAA warns Musk that he is building Super Heavy launch tower without permission

#55

Post by nostrademons »

avmich wrote: post #31
nostrademons wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would probably just declare himself his own country. Just needs his own currency (wait, didn't he do that already?), own military (it's handy to own a fleet of ICBMs with better guidance systems than anything the U.S. has), and own energy infrastructure.

Not currency, military and energy country constitute. People do.

Wouldn't be surprised if Musk would be happy ruling over a country with no people. Just robots who idolize him as their creator.

Re: FAA warns Musk that he is building Super Heavy launch tower without permission

#56

Post by nostrademons »

science4sail wrote: post #29
nostrademons wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would probably just declare himself his own country. Just needs his own currency (wait, didn't he do that already?), own military (it's handy to own a fleet of ICBMs with better guidance systems than anything the U.S. has), and own energy infrastructure.

He'd still need to buy/steal/conquer some territory. Plenty of terra nullius on Mars though.

Maybe that's been his plan all along.

Re: FAA warns Musk that he is building Super Heavy launch tower without permission

#57

Post by microtherion »

hirundo wrote: post #47

This project appears to be on the critical path to making humanity a multi planetary species. That should be balanced against whatever impact the environmental review finds. Not that it should give SpaceX a blank check. But to the extent that the environment is fragile and needs protection, it's even more important to not have all of our eggs in it.

> This project appears to be on the critical path to making humanity a multi planetary species.

Inasmuch as "multi planetary" means multiple _self supporting_ planetary settlements (and otherwise, what's the point?), that seems to be an entirely unrealistic goal for the foreseeable future, so, by definition, there cannot really be a "critical path" to such a goal.

Re: FAA warns Musk that he is building Super Heavy launch tower without permission

#58

Post by R0b0t1 »

microtherion wrote: post #57
hirundo wrote: post #47

This project appears to be on the critical path to making humanity a multi planetary species. That should be balanced against whatever impact the environmental review finds. Not that it should give SpaceX a blank check. But to the extent that the environment is fragile and needs protection, it's even more important to not have all of our eggs in it.

> This project appears to be on the critical path to making humanity a multi planetary species. Inasmuch as "multi planetary" means multiple _self supporting_ planetary settlements (and otherwise, what's the point?), that seems to be an entirely unrealistic goal for the foreseeable future, so, by definition, there cannot really be a "critical path" to such a goal.

Nothing is self supporting on long enough timescales.

Re: FAA warns Musk that he is building Super Heavy launch tower without permission

#59

Post by R0b0t1 »

wyqydsyq wrote: post #40
GoOnThenDoTell wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Launches from international waters from a US firm will still need FAA approval

What requires them to get approval from the FAA for something outside the FAA's jurisdiction?

The FAA claims jurisdiction worldwide. Did you not see the case where Musk launched from India because he could not get reasonable US approval and they pitched a fit?

Re: FAA warns Musk that he is building Super Heavy launch tower without permission

#60

Post by R0b0t1 »

ncallaway wrote: post #43
tymekpavel wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is easy for SpaceX to create a shell company that circumvents this.

I don't think that's true. Many aspects of SpaceX's rockets are covered by ITAR, which puts strict regulations and controls on the exports of many aspects of SpaceX's vehicles. I imagine exporting the rocket to a non-US based firm would be a much larger bureaucratic hurdle than getting FAA approvals.

ITAR is largely voluntary. I say this having looked at the regulations because at one time I wanted to produce/was producing things that fell under ITAR. In a lot of situations if you say it is not restricted by ITAR then it is not.

This leaves me (and hopefully you) wondering what ITAR actually still accomplishes. I guess federal contracts dictate the use of the ensuing technology? I still see issues with that depending on how IP rights are assigned.

I guess we're waiting on the next PGP-style test of export control laws.

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