51–60 of 436 posts
This person also posted an amazing, unvarnished update recently (about 5-6 years later): https://livingafi.com/2021/03/17/the-2021-early-retirement-u...
This is one of the biggest missing pieces in internet FIRE discussions. So much of the FIRE discourse is about not working that many don’t realize that they’re going to be extremely bored with 16 hours to fill every day. Worse, their friends are all busy with their lives. It’s actually a common failure point of FIRE post-mittens that didn’t work out. Especially with couples, where it’s more likely that at least one p…
Got to admit that watching people struggle with the question of what to do without a job to fill their time is just completely wild to me. It is difficult for me to imagine someone who has so little they want to do outside of work that they can't easily find ways to fill up the 8+ hours a day their job takes from them. I have a list of things I'd like to do a mile long that I know I'll never actually find time to do…
I understand the bordem argument but I think that sort of boredom is socially conditioned on us. During my time at university I worked almost constantly. I remember after graduating and getting a job only working 8-hours a day, I suddenly found myself with excess fee time I didn't know what to do with. I distinctively remember my first day returning from work, that I got home and was lost: what do I want to do (not what do I need to do or should do)? I have no papers or assignments due tomorrow. No major project efforts weeks behind I'm trying to catch up on, no looming deadlines, no new tech I need to learn to be ready for the next job, etc.
I came to the realization that I was bored and didn't know what to do because I was conditioned to be constantly busy working, largely for other people and not myself --from my parents, church, schooling, society, and so on. A goal can be for yourself but often the processes to attain said goals are for other people. I chose to do certain aspects because they were interesting but it was more so because I needed to, had to or should do to get to my goal.
I believe most people don't need work to find value in life, they need the time to discover what it is they value, the basic resources to pursue it, and ability to live decently while doing it. Unfortunately, we have an economic system that doesn't really allow for that. There is some choice in our economic system but for many, that choice is an illusion or at best, heavily constrained.
I believe we need to move away from this work tied to life value concept, but I believe too many people currently rely on exploiting this concept to have others create value for themselves while constantly selling the idea of work giving purpose in life so they can pursue their goals without working. The issue isn't that work exists and is needed to maintain certain structure to society, it's more that it's used as shackles on many.
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Got to admit that watching people struggle with the question of what to do without a job to fill their time is just completely wild to me. It is difficult for me to imagine someone who has so little they want to do outside of work that they can't easily find ways to fill up the 8+ hours a day their job takes from them. I have a list of things I'd like to do a mile long that I know I'll never actually find time to do…
> It is difficult for me to imagine someone who has so little they want to do outside of work that they can't easily find ways to fill up the 8+ hours a day their job takes from them It’s not that simple. I felt the same way before I crossed the FIRE threshold and took some time off (mini-FIRE, I guess). It turns out, most of the things I had been putting off weren’t as time consuming as I thought. I found myself reg…
When I say I have projects I know I'll never do, I'm talking about the kinds of things that range from "will probably take several years" to "might not be completable in the lifetime I have remaining". Even if each of those things takes an eighth of the time I think they will, I still easily have enough to fill up the rest of my life even if I never do anything purely for the enjoyment of it.
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The conclusion came to me is that extreme working and extreme no-working are both bad in the long run. All you need is a work-family-life balance. I am also glad that the author now opens the door for getting married and even having a kid. Work, spouse, kids, the traditional way of life have been explored and chosen by human being for at least thousands of years. The psychological / economic needs for living with a f…
Work, spouse, kids, the traditional way of life have been explored and chosen by human being for at least thousands of years. Vast majority of people did not “choose” all that throughout human history. There was zero alternative. They had to work to survive. If you want to make your argument you should only look at those who were born rich enough to not have to work.
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Except that, theoretically, “communism” is different from “socialism”, and, indeed, in a communist society one could choose not to do anything “useful” (since no one has to work for a living).
I don't believe the Leninist notion of communism incorporated the idea of "not working for a living" either, but I could be wrong.
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> So much of the FIRE discourse is about not working that many don’t realize that they’re going to be extremely bored with 16 hours to fill every day. People are different, I suppose. Perhaps not in FIRE circles but this is certainly discussed regarding 'normal' retirement, and I don't feel the same way at all. I'm in my twenties, and honestly think I could fill the rest of my life more than once with non-work. Espec…
> Do you really find yourself reaching the end of a weekend and thinking Oh thank God I have work tomorrow, I'm so bored? The comment above you is channeling the common need to say anything, no matter what it is, in response to an attack on tradition. This is why people in Oregon hear about a proposal to make pumping your own gas legal and respond "but what if somebody doesn't know how?", as if it were difficult to k…
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The conclusion came to me is that extreme working and extreme no-working are both bad in the long run. All you need is a work-family-life balance. I am also glad that the author now opens the door for getting married and even having a kid. Work, spouse, kids, the traditional way of life have been explored and chosen by human being for at least thousands of years. The psychological / economic needs for living with a f…
Work, spouse, kids, the traditional way of life have been explored and chosen by human being for at least thousands of years. Vast majority of people did not “choose” all that throughout human history. There was zero alternative. They had to work to survive. If you want to make your argument you should only look at those who were born rich enough to not have to work.
There are people born rich enough to not have to work, but do they live a happy life by not working all the way?
I'm 52 and have 2.5MM in an IRA (200k cash) and debt of just a $200k mortgage (and this is weaksauce compared to my peers who all became VPs or C*Os). And the idea of trying to live off an IRA that is currently stocks/bonds/ETFs scares the bejeebers out of me. I think it is more about the personality than the money: do you have the risk-tolerance like this guy to say "fuck it, it will all work out," or are you like m…
And yes, I think any American should rightfully be terrified of being bankrupted by medical bills. But the world is a big place and a lot of it is much safer than the US.
If it's difficult to envision yourself without work, then you probably put too much of your identity into your work. Maybe that's not a bad thing if you truly love your job, but for most of us that is a huge mistake. Finding passions outside of work and approaching ideas as a child would is the simplest way to phrase the solution. As a child everything is new and exciting, it's easy to entertain yourself (quite cheap…