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The History of Karate

smithsonianmag.com

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Re: The History of Karate

#51

Post by wincy »

99_00 wrote: post #22
bloniac wrote: post #8

I was a great believer in karate as a combat sport for many years. The arrival of MMA proved the true effectiveness of each of the martial arts in an actual combat situation. Karate has value in combat, but it’s certainly not as effective as I originally thought. I took my son to do karate training for a year and watched the classes and honestly it seemed pretty worthless to me as a way of learning to fight/defend yo…

To train to win a fight you need sparing. Full contact sparing in boxing, kickboxing, or even karate has dangers. A practitioner has to work up to full contact sparing in a controlled way. And even then there is risk of brain damage. I'm not up to date with the latest science, but I wouldn't risk my child's brain on something as unimportant as winning a fight. On the other hand, with grappling sports like wrestling,…

I cracked a rib within the first two weeks of BJJ. Dude rolled his elbow into my ribs and all his weight went to that spot. Hurt for months. I didn’t sue and they didn’t charge me anything. That was my BJJ experience at 32

Re: The History of Karate

#52

Post by 99_00 »

roca wrote: post #48
99_00 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a Western stereotype of the Orient if one aspect of Chinese culture is exaggerated and blown out of proportion to the point of caricature.

"exaggerated to the point of caricature" is de rigeur for wuxia.

"exaggerated to the point of caricature" maybe the de rigeur for wuxia, but it is still just "one aspect of Chinese culture" and just one aspect of Chinese martial arts culture.

Re: The History of Karate

#53

Post by dvaun »

probably_wrong wrote: post #49

I'm going to get on my high horse to tell an anecdote about why I'm mildly suspicious every time someone suggest that karate is not violent enough to be useful. I practiced karate for years, and I still would if I hadn't moved far away. My teacher was a fan of exchanges with other schools, which is how we ended up visiting a Jujitsu school to learn some grappling moves. The instructor was a police officer that worked…

Hearing “banned” techniques brings to mind the practice of Dim Mak.

Re: The History of Karate

#54

Post by unishark »

jiggawatts wrote: post #34

A general observation that explains a lot about most martial arts is that over time they all become "watered down" to mere exercise or a strange stylised dancing. That's because you can't have people permanently maiming each other during "friendly practice". If the village parents send their kids to the local monastery (or school, or wherever) for "training" and they come back with broken bones or just one of two eye…

I think the biggest consideration for young (up to middle aged or so..) males is self-defense against bullies. Where there will be unwritten rules to a degree.

Obviously it depends on the dojo, but the ones I've interacted with were genuinely concerned with real-world self-defense too, even if it wasn't their primary focus. So they included days and discussions that focused on it.

Re: The History of Karate

#55

Post by boxed »

vnorilo wrote: post #19
bloniac wrote: post #8

I was a great believer in karate as a combat sport for many years. The arrival of MMA proved the true effectiveness of each of the martial arts in an actual combat situation. Karate has value in combat, but it’s certainly not as effective as I originally thought. I took my son to do karate training for a year and watched the classes and honestly it seemed pretty worthless to me as a way of learning to fight/defend yo…

The street effectiveness of a MA is a function of time spent sparring, something that is prevalent in the arts you mention, in addition to coverage of standing and ground game. Strikers will have just a brief window of opportunity before grapplers take them down. On the other hand, even super effective grappling art like BJJ becomes pretty useless if you face two assailants.

All martial arts are pretty much worthless against multiple attackers though. If you're Mike Tyson you could probably do well against two, but then the odds go down sharply at three, four, etc. It's just math.

Re: The History of Karate

#56

Post by slavak »

anon_tor_12345 wrote: post #14
fastball wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was always under the impression that Karate wasn't particularly useful for combat / self-defense. Krav Maga is the martial art that I've always thought of as actually useful for self-defense.

>Krav Maga is the martial art that I've always thought of as actually useful for self-defense i'm not big on martial arts or even mma but for some reason i've seen this argument in various places often enough that i've also seen the appropriate response: if that were true then all of the most successful mma fighters would be krav maga experts. in actuality not a single one practices krav maga. the proof is in the pud…

Krav Maga minus the parts that are illegal or irrelevant to UFC basically _is_ MMA, which is unsurprising since the whole concept of the method since its inception in the 1940s is to collect effective and intuitive techniques from any martial art you can find. (Sort of a _mix_ of different martial arts, one might say...)

There's at least one successful mixed martial artist with a Krav Maga background (Karolina Kowalkiewicz, UKM Expert level 2), but she's definitely an outlier rather than the rule. Krav Maga tries to be a no-rules self-defense method that can be trained in as little time as possible. If your aim is to be a high-level competitor in a specific sport, and you have the required time and athletic ability to train appropriately, then your best bet is to skip the middleman and train in that sport directly.

Re: The History of Karate

#57

Post by okuboheavy »

bloniac wrote: post #8

I was a great believer in karate as a combat sport for many years. The arrival of MMA proved the true effectiveness of each of the martial arts in an actual combat situation. Karate has value in combat, but it’s certainly not as effective as I originally thought. I took my son to do karate training for a year and watched the classes and honestly it seemed pretty worthless to me as a way of learning to fight/defend yo…

You don’t teach kids karate so they can learn how to fight. You teach kids karate to learn self control, self confidence, discipline and the value of not fighting.

Re: The History of Karate

#58

Post by unishark »

probably_wrong wrote: post #49

I'm going to get on my high horse to tell an anecdote about why I'm mildly suspicious every time someone suggest that karate is not violent enough to be useful. I practiced karate for years, and I still would if I hadn't moved far away. My teacher was a fan of exchanges with other schools, which is how we ended up visiting a Jujitsu school to learn some grappling moves. The instructor was a police officer that worked…

That guy and technique notwithstanding, the appeal of "banned techniques" isn't just about bringing back the injuries that got them banned, but the fact that they were often very effective. In Judo they made some pretty controversial decisions to ban a bunch of popular moves from competition a few years ago. However they're still part of Judo. A dojo that is concerned about teaching self-defense (as opposed to just competition) might be better if they taught them.

Re: The History of Karate

#59

Post by boxed »

wincy wrote: post #51
99_00 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To train to win a fight you need sparing. Full contact sparing in boxing, kickboxing, or even karate has dangers. A practitioner has to work up to full contact sparing in a controlled way. And even then there is risk of brain damage. I'm not up to date with the latest science, but I wouldn't risk my child's brain on something as unimportant as winning a fight. On the other hand, with grappling sports like wrestling,…

I cracked a rib within the first two weeks of BJJ. Dude rolled his elbow into my ribs and all his weight went to that spot. Hurt for months. I didn’t sue and they didn’t charge me anything. That was my BJJ experience at 32

Mine as well. At 41. I think this is down to a teacher who doesn't care about injuries.

Re: The History of Karate

#60

Post by alfiedotwtf »

lanevorockz wrote: post #5
gabereiser wrote: post #3

Growing up, I learned karate. It wasn’t until I met a Kung Fu practitioner that I realized I know nothing Jon Snow . I switched to Kung Fu and never looked back. I still think karate is good because of its structure and competitions but if you are battling yourself, as an art, as a discipline - Kung Fu is king. Great read though. Can’t wait to see it in the games.

Kung Fu is more a philosophy than a Martial Art. Hence no Kung Fu MMA champions

It's very much a martial art, though varies between different schools (but the same could be the same with any style of fighting).
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