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Casa Client Case Study: The Tinder Trap

blog.keys.casa

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Re: Casa Client Case Study: The Tinder Trap

#51

Post by gruez »

PretzelPirate wrote: post #25
lordnacho wrote: post #12

But if you don't have the keys to move your money, it becomes a lot less useful as money. It's still like gold though, something that you have a sort of vault that you rarely visit. If you got drugged and someone took your phone to do a bank transfer, I would imagine there would be some hope of reversing the transfer, with a whole lot of painful steps. With crypto it's pretty futile if they manage to move it. Also th…

It’s pretty easy to make it hard to move your crypto while you maintain access to all keys involved. It becomes even easier if you use a blockchain that supports smart contracts. Something as simple as using a contract to delay any coin transfers with one or more keys that can stop the transfer is trivial to implement. Even simple multi-sig is pretty good assuming you don’t rely on two keys both stored in your phone.…

Seems like even bitcoin supports it, even though it's not typically thought of as a "smart contract" platform.

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Timelock

Re: Casa Client Case Study: The Tinder Trap

#52

Post by theli0nheart »

vishnugupta wrote: post #36

I've been working in the payments industry on and off for 15 years. I am yet to work with a payment method that does not support reversal (except for physical cash). As a last resort victims can file chargeback with their issuers or police. To begin with there are several layers of protection built in at acquirer, issuer, network and so on. Almost at each step there's an option to reverse the payment (or issue a comp…

Paying by cash is irreversible. That’s how payments were until credit cards and the Internet came along.

One of the big innovations of cryptocurrency is allowing for electronic, cash-like payments. To solution to coercing a “reversal” of a transaction is use the legal system.

Re: Casa Client Case Study: The Tinder Trap

#53

Post by ubercore »

drcode wrote: post #50
vishnugupta wrote: post #36

I've been working in the payments industry on and off for 15 years. I am yet to work with a payment method that does not support reversal (except for physical cash). As a last resort victims can file chargeback with their issuers or police. To begin with there are several layers of protection built in at acquirer, issuer, network and so on. Almost at each step there's an option to reverse the payment (or issue a comp…

Ethereum has had a couple of reversible payment systems built over the years, but nobody used them. Non-reversible, immediate, guaranteed transactions are just more convenient outside of a few edge cases

As kind of an outsider to a lot of things payment and crypto, just a normal consumer, I feel like this is a scenario where you don't know you're an edge case until it's too late.

Re: Casa Client Case Study: The Tinder Trap

#54

Post by chrisseaton »

vishnugupta wrote: post #36

I've been working in the payments industry on and off for 15 years. I am yet to work with a payment method that does not support reversal (except for physical cash). As a last resort victims can file chargeback with their issuers or police. To begin with there are several layers of protection built in at acquirer, issuer, network and so on. Almost at each step there's an option to reverse the payment (or issue a comp…

> I am yet to work with a payment method that does not support reversal

Is CHAPS reversible? I don’t think it is. Or is it just not exposed as an option to institutions?

Re: Casa Client Case Study: The Tinder Trap

#55

Post by Cthulhu_ »

joemazerino wrote: post #16
BitwiseFool wrote: post #15

"Not your keys, not your Crypto" is good advice, but I personally prefer to leave my wallet in the hands of a trusted large exchange like Gemini, Coinbase, or Kraken. Not only do they have better security than I do, they also have a whole slew of extra barriers in the event a malicious actor wants to drain my funds. I can freeze withdrawals, whitelist specific addresses, and put time/wait barriers to all of these thi…

What if any of those exchanges get hacked or exit? Store offline.

Or like in this article, the victim gave access to their phone to the thief - that's 2nd factor authentication broken, and if their password manager is also unlocked (e.g. via Face ID or by coercion to put their password in) that'll give the thief full access to the account.

Of course, they could put in a 24 hour delay as well for larger transactions. But that's a setting that the user should probably engage themselves.

Also don't use Face ID or fingerprints to open up your phone or especially your password manager or 2FA app.

Re: Casa Client Case Study: The Tinder Trap

#56

Post by papito »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #46
papito wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got roofied once in a bar and the next thing I knew I was going back to my place in the back of a car. They gave me weed, too. You are completely out of it, you will say whatever they ask you. This is how truth serum works, at its core. So, the girl(s) called Chase posing as my wife and transferred $500 out of my account. A nice chunk of cash, but not too greedy so I could let it go and not pursue it any further. Y…

It's kinda scary that they can order a cash transaction via phone. Is there no identity verification at all?

Whatever the bank asked, I gave her all the information. It's insane how easy it was. I had no defenses at all.

Moral of the story: please don't store large amounts of cash in your checking account.

Re: Casa Client Case Study: The Tinder Trap

#57

Post by pc86 »

gruez wrote: post #41
vishnugupta wrote: post #36

I've been working in the payments industry on and off for 15 years. I am yet to work with a payment method that does not support reversal (except for physical cash). As a last resort victims can file chargeback with their issuers or police. To begin with there are several layers of protection built in at acquirer, issuer, network and so on. Almost at each step there's an option to reverse the payment (or issue a comp…

>I am yet to work with a payment method that does not support reversal (except for physical cash). As a last resort victims can file chargeback with their issuers or police. What about the stories of companies being scammed via wire transfer?

This isn't a scam, it's robbery/theft, which is an important distinction. If you're robbed at an ATM the bank will make you whole. If someone lies to you and asks for money, you go to an ATM and give it to them, the bank isn't going to do anything about it.

Re: Casa Client Case Study: The Tinder Trap

#58

Post by asdfman123 »

abstractbarista wrote: post #8

While the article seems part-advertisement, the risk is real. Best not to let strangers know your worth, and use multi-factor authentication everywhere. It's a disgusting (and beautiful) world we live in!

I once asked about the best way to exchange a significant amount of crypto in a public FB group (I know, poor opsec).

That night, someone on the other side of the world shared a random PDF with me.

I was smart enough not to touch that bad juju PDF, but I wonder if it was an attempt to hack me. Anyone know?

Re: Casa Client Case Study: The Tinder Trap

#59

Post by amarant »

jcpham2 wrote: post #42
vishnugupta wrote: post #36

I've been working in the payments industry on and off for 15 years. I am yet to work with a payment method that does not support reversal (except for physical cash). As a last resort victims can file chargeback with their issuers or police. To begin with there are several layers of protection built in at acquirer, issuer, network and so on. Almost at each step there's an option to reverse the payment (or issue a comp…

reversible payments equals double spending, which is fraud, which is your payments industry. read the white paper start over. do not collect $200

Because crypto-weebs would never ever make a mistake, ever.

So clearly this is better.

Sigh

Re: Casa Client Case Study: The Tinder Trap

#60

Post by pc86 »

drcode wrote: post #50
vishnugupta wrote: post #36

I've been working in the payments industry on and off for 15 years. I am yet to work with a payment method that does not support reversal (except for physical cash). As a last resort victims can file chargeback with their issuers or police. To begin with there are several layers of protection built in at acquirer, issuer, network and so on. Almost at each step there's an option to reverse the payment (or issue a comp…

Ethereum has had a couple of reversible payment systems built over the years, but nobody used them. Non-reversible, immediate, guaranteed transactions are just more convenient outside of a few edge cases

"A few edge cases" including the fact that a sizeable chunk of the population will go through extremely convoluted means to steal from you, especially in the case of non-reversible, immediate, and guaranteed transactions?
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