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Stepping Back from Speaking

martinfowler.com

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Re: Stepping Back from Speaking

#51
I get this too.

Meanwhile, I wonder: are talks even worth it? A blog post can reach orders of magnitude more people, can be edited to perfection in advance, and is much easier for most people to consume (supports searching, skimming, quoting, out-of-order reading etc.). Even the Q&A part is much better conducted on a site like HN than live.

It seems to me that a good blog post is strictly better than a talk. Yet we're willing to spend way more money and effort on talks, for some reason?

Re: Stepping Back from Speaking

#52

For me, it's somewhat ironic then that during my early software career (20+ years ago), Fowler's lucid writing helped me through a lot of the anxiety, insecurity and impostor syndrome I experienced. His work introduced me to eXtreme Programming, UML, Refactoring and more. Much of the agile tooling used nowadays are a consequence of effort he and the groups he was a part of put forth. The book Analysis Patterns is ver…

+1 on Analysis Patterns. The notation is a little dated, but the book is still a good read.

Re: Stepping Back from Speaking

#53
post #51

I get this too. Meanwhile, I wonder: are talks even worth it? A blog post can reach orders of magnitude more people, can be edited to perfection in advance, and is much easier for most people to consume (supports searching, skimming, quoting, out-of-order reading etc.). Even the Q&A part is much better conducted on a site like HN than live. It seems to me that a good blog post is strictly better than a talk. Yet we'r…

Yes! part of my speech anxiety is because the REASON to do it is so lacking. When I feel the importance of what I'm communicating it's almost entirely gone, but when I'm just up there spewing them same tired shit I can't get out of my head.

Re: Stepping Back from Speaking

#54

I dropped out of my PhD because I could not stand the pressure of having to do talks regularly. Even though I was pretty decent at it (I was told my delivery was fine and clarity was superb), and sometimes felt good ("powerful" for lack of a better word) while on stage, I would worry for months before every presentation, then basically get physically sick for weeks before, and take some weeks more to recover. Then on…

> I would worry for months before every presentation, then basically get physically sick for weeks before, and take some weeks more to recover.

That was exactly me. Fortunately, my PhD advisor noticed the trend and solved it in a severe but functional way. Starting from my second year, I was assigned to teach calculus to first-year computer science undergrads (three groups of about 80 students each). It was absolutely terrifying. At the beginning I vomited, had diarrhea, anxiety, the whole pack. But since the schedule was so intense, somehow my body got used to it. After a couple of months, I had become desensitized to it, and actually started enjoying it.

It may be unusual, but my advisor coached me quite well on how to teach, and that helped me a lot. A couple of days before my first class, he asked me how was it going, and I told him that it was quite bad... then he asked me casually if I had already prepared my first class (of course, I had spent the entire summer preparing for it!), and to remind him what was it about, since it had been a few years since he last taught it. Then I told him the whole contents of the first session in about 20 minutes, even reaching for the blackboard to write a couple of formulas. After that, I said "the way I'm going to explain all that is...", and he cut me: "no! forget about your preparation. The informal explanation you just gave is actually a good first class, just repeat it a bit slowly and call it a day". I knew he was fucking with me just to calm me down, but this actually gave me a confidence boost.

When I had to speak at my first somewhat major conference venue, I had similar concerns, and he told me "remember the first course you taught? do exactly the same thing: explain your stuff to fellow scientists as you would do if you found them by the coffee machine".

> But I feel I'm missing a part of life by it.

Surely not! If you really don't like speaking in public, it's alright. There's plenty of other things that you are not doing, and that are not either "a part of life". Nobody can do everything.

Re: Stepping Back from Speaking

#55
post #51

I get this too. Meanwhile, I wonder: are talks even worth it? A blog post can reach orders of magnitude more people, can be edited to perfection in advance, and is much easier for most people to consume (supports searching, skimming, quoting, out-of-order reading etc.). Even the Q&A part is much better conducted on a site like HN than live. It seems to me that a good blog post is strictly better than a talk. Yet we'r…

I disagree. I prefer talks, most of the time, especially on stuff that isn't nitty gritty technical. Do I want someone explaining to me on stage how to install minikube and deploy a container? Hell no.

But take what Fowler did, namely talking about refactoring, organizing and structuring your code - the broad strokes stuff. I think it's a lot more enjoyable and effective to listen to a talk (esp in person) for that, than it is to read about it.

Humans are social creatures, and I do enjoy the human aspect of learning from another human. Teaching is performative. I don't get that from a text as much as from a talk.

Of course, everyone's different, and that's why it's good it doesn't have to be either or.

Re: Stepping Back from Speaking

#56

For me, it's somewhat ironic then that during my early software career (20+ years ago), Fowler's lucid writing helped me through a lot of the anxiety, insecurity and impostor syndrome I experienced. His work introduced me to eXtreme Programming, UML, Refactoring and more. Much of the agile tooling used nowadays are a consequence of effort he and the groups he was a part of put forth. The book Analysis Patterns is ver…

+1 on Analysis Patterns. The notation is a little dated, but the book is still a good read.

+2 and thank you for reminding me that I have a copy of this book. About to start a new job and it would be worthwhile to refresh my mind on the concepts.

Re: Stepping Back from Speaking

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Martin Fowler is not "Uncle Bob". And "thank you for stating the obvious" is usually an insult in American English. If you're wondering why you're getting downvoted, might be one of those.

Are you... complaining about downvoting on my behalf ? How absurd.

Nope, wasn't complaining.

Re: Stepping Back from Speaking

#58

I dropped out of my PhD because I could not stand the pressure of having to do talks regularly. Even though I was pretty decent at it (I was told my delivery was fine and clarity was superb), and sometimes felt good ("powerful" for lack of a better word) while on stage, I would worry for months before every presentation, then basically get physically sick for weeks before, and take some weeks more to recover. Then on…

Is it really required to do talks? Does that mean that, for example, people who can't speak (muteness and similar disabilities) can not become PhD?

Re: Stepping Back from Speaking

#59

I dropped out of my PhD because I could not stand the pressure of having to do talks regularly. Even though I was pretty decent at it (I was told my delivery was fine and clarity was superb), and sometimes felt good ("powerful" for lack of a better word) while on stage, I would worry for months before every presentation, then basically get physically sick for weeks before, and take some weeks more to recover. Then on…

Six weeks before my thesis defense, I gave a talk at MIT's combinatorics seminar on Grobner bases.

We came up with an abstract intended to attract computer scientists. I was a bit naive about complexity analysis. The computer scientists came, were quite generous and kind to me as a graduate student who didn't know, but they were out for blood when it came to protecting basic concepts.

I was asked to explain algebraic geometry to complete beginners, to set the stage for my talk. At the same time, an algebraic geometry seminar was to meet down the hall. The speaker was from the university that had just hired me. Two attendees drew this ridiculous conclusion that my efforts to computerize algebraic geometry might be the future. They convinced the organizers to postpone the algebraic geometry seminar so that they could attend my talk.

80 or so of the world's 300 experts in algebraic geometry showed up with nothing to do for an hour. Guess what they did? We had to move my room, so they could hear me explain algebraic geometry to complete beginners.

Yes I felt ill afterwards.

Re: Stepping Back from Speaking

#60
It's normal to have anxiety about public speaking. It's also within reach of most to overcome it. I think taking meds for it is not a good practice at all.

It's important to distinguish the fear you may have of speaking in front of people from the fear you may have of presenting incorrect material. If you're giving an instructional speech about a practice/process that's well known with zero controversy, and which you are very familiar with, do you still have anxiety?

That's a different breed of anxiety than when you are postulating in front of a crowd of peers about fringe techniques that you may harbor doubts about yourself (a new way to do a process, or a change to the accepted standard, or a new interpretation of history, etc).

It's important to distinguish what's causing the anxiety because the fix is different for these two issues. For the latter, it's building confidence in your own preparation and learning. Do you know what you're talking about? Could you put it on paper and publish it and not look like a jackass? If so, carry on.

For the former - like you just get anxiety from talking in front of people even about material that is uncontroversial - the key is kind of a mind trick on yourself. For me, I try to find some aspect of the topic that I really love and enjoy, and am fascinated by. If I can do that, my mind is focused on giving and sharing that fascination, and all anxiety goes away.

That said, I started speaking publicly in high school as part of Academic Decathlon - speech competitions and the like. I remember being anxious about doing that in the same way I would be anxious about a school musical. As a kid, overcoming that and just doing it is the first step to learning how to enjoy it.

I highly recommend that parents expose their kids to this early - school plays, speech competitions - if they have the opportunity to do so. With most skills in life, exposure to it as a kid helps greatly.

As an adult, I look back on those younger days about stressing over a two-minute speech with some amusement. Now I have zero problem talking for 40+ minutes. It's not something I every worked up to like reps of an exercise, it's just the relatively simple trick of falling in love with subject matter and having confidence that you know the material and have seen a thing or two that gives you some authority (road mileage) on the topic. Probably also advantageous as an adult to recognize that EVERYBODY out there in the world is fundamentally a hack in life, just trying to get by day-by-day, the same as you, wanting to understand things and for people to treat them with dignity.

Speaking is serving - think of it that way and (for me at least) anxiety goes away.

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