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Why does the world harbor so many different voltages, plugs, and sockets?

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Re: Why does the world harbor so many different voltages, plugs, and sockets?

#51

Post by pja »

alkonaut wrote: post #29
evolve2k wrote: post #12

I know it’s likely highly subjective and prone to local bias, but I feel a next step would be to do user testing of alternatives and derive a best form factor plug. What’s the best plug we could all be aspiring to. Some are clearly more usable than others. One metric: easy of use in the dark/based on feel alone.

Safety seems like a big one too. Even the shoddiest fit should never have a visible powered part. Reliability: Fit should be good. You should be easily able to plug a heavy transformer on a downward facing socket without it falling out by gravity alone. Lastly, compactness. The standard should be compact so fittings can be good looking and not use too much space. The UK grounded connector fails the last criteria. The…

UK plugs are the best plugs. Apart from when you tread on one...

(The requirement to have a fuse in every plug is a necessity for UK ring mains, but makes the things even bigger than they otherwise would be.)

Re: Why does the world harbor so many different voltages, plugs, and sockets?

#52

Post by selfhoster11 »

edrxty wrote: post #36
Scoundreller wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recently learned this the hard way. A Macbook will charge over any voltage over USB-C. Slowly, or maybe just increasing battery life, but it'll take anything. It'll charge from a 5V1A power bank if you like. So when I had to make an emergency trip, I assumed my newish Dell with USB-C charging would be the same. And that assumption was false. Unless you're charging with 20V USB-C (not common outside of laptop chargers…

USB C is a nightmare. Everyone has basically decided that following the spec isn't worth it and there's shit everywhere. The connector is terrible for laptops, I have to be incredibly careful not to bend the connector and the cables wear out surprisingly quickly from connect/disconnect cycles.

Beats having a million proprietary charging cables.

Re: Why does the world harbor so many different voltages, plugs, and sockets?

#53

Post by qwerty456127 »

selfhoster11 wrote: post #48
throw0101a wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why not just give the 120 V up and go full 240 V in every outlet? No one feels it's worth the effort. You'd need two sets of plugs in every home and redesign a whole bunch of appliances and sell both types during the change over period, which could last decades.

Most appliances that draw less than a kilowatt of energy are capable of switching to 240V or 120V as needed, some even automatically.

If so, then I would prefer to make all the outlets in my hypothetical American home 240V. Why don't actual Americans do?

Re: Why does the world harbor so many different voltages, plugs, and sockets?

#54

Post by sopooneo »

nwallin wrote: post #37
tzs wrote: post #20

The article seems to be mostly about voltages and plugs/sockets that the consumer will see at the outlets throughout their home. It's interesting to look a little beyond that. Most of the places that offer 230 V at their outlets seem to be distributing power in the neighborhoods using a 3 phase 230 V system. Individual houses are wired to one phase of that. In the US, distribution throughout a neighborhood is typical…

It's also common in the US for neighborhoods to have 240V 3 phase, and for a neighborhood to have a common neutral. Each house gets the neutral and 2 of the hots. Hot to neutral gives 120V, hot to hot gives 208V. (240*sin(120 degrees)) The result is that the high voltage appliances need to support both 240V and 208V. Most appliances just design for 240V and test to ensure they don't break at 208V, and just give reduc…

Interesting. Thank you. I always assumed they were 180° out of phase.

Re: Why does the world harbor so many different voltages, plugs, and sockets?

#55

Post by selfhoster11 »

qwerty456127 wrote: post #53
selfhoster11 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most appliances that draw less than a kilowatt of energy are capable of switching to 240V or 120V as needed, some even automatically.

If so, then I would prefer to make all the outlets in my hypothetical American home 240V. Why don't actual Americans do?

Because that doesn't account for the 20% of random devices that aren't directly 240V capable. It's not as plug and play as it could be.

Re: Why does the world harbor so many different voltages, plugs, and sockets?

#56

Post by alkonaut »

pja wrote: post #51
alkonaut wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Safety seems like a big one too. Even the shoddiest fit should never have a visible powered part. Reliability: Fit should be good. You should be easily able to plug a heavy transformer on a downward facing socket without it falling out by gravity alone. Lastly, compactness. The standard should be compact so fittings can be good looking and not use too much space. The UK grounded connector fails the last criteria. The…

UK plugs are the best plugs. Apart from when you tread on one... (The requirement to have a fuse in every plug is a necessity for UK ring mains, but makes the things even bigger than they otherwise would be.)

> UK plugs are the best plugs.

Wonder if anyone ever arrived in the UK feeling the same way..

> (The requirement to have a fuse in every plug is a necessity for UK ring mains, but makes the things even bigger than they otherwise would be.)

Yes. It’s much too bulky to be acceptable anywhere where people aren’t used to that size (nor would anyone accept fuses in the plugs I think. Unsure about switches at sockets).

Re: Why does the world harbor so many different voltages, plugs, and sockets?

#57

Post by gumby »

edrxty wrote: post #30
palijer wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Install some GFCI outlets everywhere and the risk is gone. Also you are very, very, very unlikely to be electrocuted in this way even if you do touch the metal and get voltage passed through you. Like, it is possible, if one finger in a hand is touching the live prong, and another finger on the other hand is touching the neutral/ground prong, you'd pass current across your chest. Or if you are touching something that…

Further, the UK has twice the voltage which means twice the current will pass through you. The US 120v system is pretty safe in general. If you do something really dumb it'll kill you but 120v isn't really that concerning compared to 230-240. The cutoff for dangerous voltages is usually considered to be around 60v.

The bulky UK plugs also have a longer ground, as do compliant plugs in Germany and Italy (at least)

Re: Why does the world harbor so many different voltages, plugs, and sockets?

#58

Post by nine_k »

sschueller wrote: post #41
evolve2k wrote: post #12

I know it’s likely highly subjective and prone to local bias, but I feel a next step would be to do user testing of alternatives and derive a best form factor plug. What’s the best plug we could all be aspiring to. Some are clearly more usable than others. One metric: easy of use in the dark/based on feel alone.

I definitely have a local bias but I believe this one has the best of all criteria. From compact to safety (improved 2007 version) and robustness as well as being polarized. Swiss Plug: https://www.worldstandards.eu/electricity/plugs-and-sockets/... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SN_441011 Compact 3 socket version: https://www.bauhaus.ch/product-images/52/95/22025295/1009627... Multiphase: https://en.m.wikipedia.org…

It's an interesting mix of the US 3-prong and the compact Euro designs.

Indeed much more compact than type E or F.

Re: Why does the world harbor so many different voltages, plugs, and sockets?

#60

Post by pja »

alkonaut wrote: post #56
pja wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UK plugs are the best plugs. Apart from when you tread on one... (The requirement to have a fuse in every plug is a necessity for UK ring mains, but makes the things even bigger than they otherwise would be.)

> UK plugs are the best plugs. Wonder if anyone ever arrived in the UK feeling the same way.. > (The requirement to have a fuse in every plug is a necessity for UK ring mains, but makes the things even bigger than they otherwise would be.) Yes. It’s much too bulky to be acceptable anywhere where people aren’t used to that size (nor would anyone accept fuses in the plugs I think. Unsure about switches at sockets).

Why would people not accept fuses in plugs? (Apart from the size issue & in reality you could probably fit a fuse into a modern US plug without making it much bigger than it is now.)
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