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Minimum Viable Self

kneelingbus.substack.com

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Re: Minimum Viable Self

#51

Post by danjac »

jancsika wrote: post #24
okareaman wrote: post #10

I know very few people who want attention from strangers when they go out in public. Most of us want to be left alone while we go about our business. Online provides a forum for people to get the sort of attention we might like. "Look what I can do!" or "Look at me!" Still, one of my gripes about social media is that there are so many people who lurk. The lurkers are there to look at people attempting to get attentio…

> “‘No Spectators’ is a long-standing saying on Playa. You are encouraged to fully participate. It’s all about being there, being fully present, and not just observing. Two of the ten principles of Burning Man are radical participation and radical inclusivity, meaning that there are no outsiders. Everyone is part of the experience.” That sounds like shit the big head on the screen would yell at Winston in the opening…

At least the inhabitants of Airstrip One didn't have to suffer from outrageous prices for food and idiot rich college kids and "influencers" slumming it for a weekend.

Re: Minimum Viable Self

#52

Post by tayo42 »

okareaman wrote: post #10

I know very few people who want attention from strangers when they go out in public. Most of us want to be left alone while we go about our business. Online provides a forum for people to get the sort of attention we might like. "Look what I can do!" or "Look at me!" Still, one of my gripes about social media is that there are so many people who lurk. The lurkers are there to look at people attempting to get attentio…

This is what I find kind of bazaar with Instagram stories. What's the point of showing who sees it. But also people keep clicking to look so they can't be that bored by the content.

I also think likes are pretty passive. Idk for me if I share something and all I get are likes, idk it feels weird it's very one way. I'd rather people comment and well do something social or nothing then just a like button click.

Re: Minimum Viable Self

#53

Post by tayo42 »

AlexCoventry wrote: post #27
username90 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook became popular because it was possibly to just observe and not be forced to participate. Everything before Facebook told you when and who viewed your content, Facebook didn't and explicitly banned any sort of apps tat could log who saw your stuff. So forcing participation sounds good in theory but in practice people love to lurk and hates being seen, even those who produce content. And since Facebook every n…

> since Facebook every new social media phenomena like Twitter or Instagram also doesn't show you who looked around at your stuff, LinkedIn seems to.

Same for Instagram stories and snap chat and I'd guess Facebook does too?

Re: Minimum Viable Self

#54

Post by tux3 »

xwkd wrote: post #30
Zababa wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, you're a real person that wrote this, and I'm a real person replying to you. No one of this is not real. The image that I might make of you in my head and that you might make of me in your head are illusions, but so are the ones we make in "meatspace". Feel free to call the internet "siliconspace" or something like that, but it won't make it not real.

Sure, it's real. Real electricity; cause and effect of pressing our fingers down and moving these tiny invisible machines. I would love to express the emotion that I feel when I read the term "meatspace," but for all the machinations that I can dream up, I fear that the meaning would be lost as each of my futile attempts travel by wire.

I would love to see you try! Even if you fail to capture what you meant, sometimes the attempt conveys just as much :)

Re: Minimum Viable Self

#55

Post by solatic »

Zababa wrote: post #43
solatic wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course it's not real. This is Jean Baudrillard's Simulacra and Simulation in practice. When you cannot tell the difference between a real person represented in the simulacra (i.e. a site like HN) and the simulacra being generated at will by a malicious actor (i.e. a simulation, fake accounts developing a history of posts, bots, guerilla marketing, etc.) then the smart person will recognize it for the un-reality th…

I don't really see how this is specific to the internet. Sure, automated bots makes this worse, but is there a big difference between a bot and someone parroting opinions that they've heard and don't really understand? I guess you can have a conversation with that person, but it's often as fruitful as replying to a bot. These people exists in the meatspace, that doesn't make it less real.

> I guess you can have a conversation with that person, but it's often as fruitful as replying to a bot.

That's precisely one of the reasons why it's not real. Conversing in "meatspace" makes it more difficult to just tune out the other side, a "real" conversation is one where leaving the conversation is either tacitly permitted by the other side (by not following the person leaving) and at least bookended by simple social ritual ("I gotta go", "Nice meeting you", etc.). Baudrillard's point is that the simulacra (the discussion online) is no longer showing you that reality, but that too many people have lost the ability to differentiate between reality and what is a convincing simulation of reality.

Re: Minimum Viable Self

#56

Post by username90 »

AlexCoventry wrote: post #27
username90 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook became popular because it was possibly to just observe and not be forced to participate. Everything before Facebook told you when and who viewed your content, Facebook didn't and explicitly banned any sort of apps tat could log who saw your stuff. So forcing participation sounds good in theory but in practice people love to lurk and hates being seen, even those who produce content. And since Facebook every n…

> since Facebook every new social media phenomena like Twitter or Instagram also doesn't show you who looked around at your stuff, LinkedIn seems to.

LinkedIn is older than facebook.

Re: Minimum Viable Self

#57

Post by username90 »

rektide wrote: post #29
username90 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook became popular because it was possibly to just observe and not be forced to participate. Everything before Facebook told you when and who viewed your content, Facebook didn't and explicitly banned any sort of apps tat could log who saw your stuff. So forcing participation sounds good in theory but in practice people love to lurk and hates being seen, even those who produce content. And since Facebook every n…

MySpace, LiveJournal,... none of these had surveillance built in. I'm not sure what "Everything before Facebook" you are referring to, but I can't think of a single system I used that let me surveil my readers.

Myspace let people track everyone who visited their page, that it wasn't a default doesn't matter when everyone just installed their own trackers. Same thing with live journal. They didn't try to stop the practice, instead they encouraged it and had guides how to do it. Facebook was the first to ban all sorts of tracking.

Re: Minimum Viable Self

#58

Post by username90 »

stadium wrote: post #40
username90 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook became popular because it was possibly to just observe and not be forced to participate. Everything before Facebook told you when and who viewed your content, Facebook didn't and explicitly banned any sort of apps tat could log who saw your stuff. So forcing participation sounds good in theory but in practice people love to lurk and hates being seen, even those who produce content. And since Facebook every n…

> Facebook didn't and explicitly banned any sort of apps tat could log who saw your stuff. Except for Cambridge Analytica, the "who unfriended me" apps, and a plethora of other apps that extracted and exploited Facebook data.

How is that relevant at all? When people talk about privacy they care a million times more if their friends see what they do than if some big organization sees what they do. What I'm talking about is people getting a list of who viewed their content, that is they can see who viewed their beach pictures etc.

Re: Minimum Viable Self

#59

Post by Normal_gaussian »

tayo42 wrote: post #52
okareaman wrote: post #10

I know very few people who want attention from strangers when they go out in public. Most of us want to be left alone while we go about our business. Online provides a forum for people to get the sort of attention we might like. "Look what I can do!" or "Look at me!" Still, one of my gripes about social media is that there are so many people who lurk. The lurkers are there to look at people attempting to get attentio…

This is what I find kind of bazaar with Instagram stories. What's the point of showing who sees it. But also people keep clicking to look so they can't be that bored by the content. I also think likes are pretty passive. Idk for me if I share something and all I get are likes, idk it feels weird it's very one way. I'd rather people comment and well do something social or nothing then just a like button click.

Heads up, you were after "bizarre" not "bazaar". A bazaar is a stall lined street/market; that said I could see with influencer culture being as it is maybe instagram is a bizarre bazaar!

Re: Minimum Viable Self

#60

Post by z0ltan »

okareaman wrote: post #10

I know very few people who want attention from strangers when they go out in public. Most of us want to be left alone while we go about our business. Online provides a forum for people to get the sort of attention we might like. "Look what I can do!" or "Look at me!" Still, one of my gripes about social media is that there are so many people who lurk. The lurkers are there to look at people attempting to get attentio…

Yeah, okay, buddy.
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