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America, Stop Moving West

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Re: America, Stop Moving West

#51

Post by systemvoltage »

hamburgerwah wrote: post #32

This has to be one of the sillier things I've ever seen. Highlighted in the article is Phoenix arizona in Maricopa County which is one of the most responsibly managed metropolitan areas in the country if not the world. More than 50% of the power derived from nuclear at Palos Verdes just 45 miles from the city which evaporates wastewater to drive turbines and provide cooling. Another 14% from solar. Plumbed grey water…

I hope 'Californication' doesn't take over Phoenix.

> In 2017 Portland ranked third. Now it has dropped to 66th out of 80.

https://www.economist.com/united-states/2021/06/12/portland-...

Oakland is similar in SF Bay Area, used to be quite livable 15 years ago.

Californians (and people from west coast states) that move there also bring their unchecked progressive views and will lead to the situation that we have in SF Bay Area, Portland, Seattle, LA and now Austin, Denver. Rampant homelessness, housing crisis, exploding crime rates, etc. No one wants to live in a society that keeps peddling failed policies. I can't wait to move out of Bay Area. I will still be a democrat but it's getting harder.

Re: America, Stop Moving West

#52

Post by exporectomy »

adamvalve wrote: post #39
hamburgerwah wrote: post #32

This has to be one of the sillier things I've ever seen. Highlighted in the article is Phoenix arizona in Maricopa County which is one of the most responsibly managed metropolitan areas in the country if not the world. More than 50% of the power derived from nuclear at Palos Verdes just 45 miles from the city which evaporates wastewater to drive turbines and provide cooling. Another 14% from solar. Plumbed grey water…

If you move to Phoenix now and plan to live in your house for 30 years, then you are going to have a bad time because Phoenix will be unlivable if there aren’t drastic measures put in place. 118 is the ceiling now. Not the ceiling forever.

Yes but You'll've always had a bad time because it was always bad. Yet people somehow still live there. So having a "bad time" isn't a reason not to live there.

"Arizona already averages more than 50 dangerous heat days a year, the second highest in the nation. By 2050, Arizona is projected to see almost 80 such days a year."

From 50 days to 80 is the difference between good and bad place to live? No. This is just handwaving nonsense. Not every worsening is a showstopper.

Re: America, Stop Moving West

#53

Post by munificent »

This is a fascinating article because at the surface level it appears to be high quality information. It looks nice. It's well written. It speaks in the kind of sweeping generalities and economic lingo that give it an air of authority.

But by the time I got about 3/4 of the way through, I realized that this was basically just some random blogger's opinion piece with little to no research or data to back it up. It falls apart if you squint at it.

First of all, the title implies that some general directional trend is at play, but then cherrypicks just a couple of cities. I'm not sure how Miami of all places is a good example of people moving west.

Also, attributing the success of the handful of cherrypicked cities to "marketing" is... bizarre. These are actual places with actual history that people can form real opinions of based on what the place is actually like to live in. People don't live in Austin because someone told them to live in Austin. They live there because they love it, a property they are able to accurately perceive for themselves independent of marketing telling them what to think.

I don't like to be negative online but this article is just not very good.

Re: America, Stop Moving West

#54

Post by goseeastarwar »

filmgirlcw wrote: post #11

> For the climate-friendly but less glamorous northern cities like Albany, Worcester, and Pittsburg, a successful marketing campaign could make them the climate-proof cities of the future. Putting aside any of the climate change arguments, suggesting that successful marketing could make Albany a “city of the future” is absurd. I don’t know what you would have to pay me to be willing to live in Albany, ever, let alone…

A warming climate makes winters in cities like Chicago more tolerable with each passing year...

Re: America, Stop Moving West

#55

Post by ectopod »

hamburgerwah wrote: post #32

This has to be one of the sillier things I've ever seen. Highlighted in the article is Phoenix arizona in Maricopa County which is one of the most responsibly managed metropolitan areas in the country if not the world. More than 50% of the power derived from nuclear at Palos Verdes just 45 miles from the city which evaporates wastewater to drive turbines and provide cooling. Another 14% from solar. Plumbed grey water…

> I'm not saying 118 is for everyone but if you have shade you won't die.

Yeah, barely. I once spent a day in the shade at 113F waiting for a bus with a friend. We played chess and it was the dumbest game ever. We could barely function. Without aircon nobody is doing anything very much at that temperature.

You can survive, just, at 118F but you can't live.

Re: America, Stop Moving West

#56

Post by alwaysanon »

This is why some of the rustbelt cities like the one I grew up in (Buffalo, NY) will have a resurgence at some point. They have affordable housing, good infrastructure bones (including green hydro power from Niagara Falls), are on one of the world's largest sources of fresh water in the Great Lakes and have direct flights to most cities you'd need to get to for work when required. While the few months of winter rather suck, it is easier to deal with a few months of winter than these 115 degree summer days the article talks about (heating, an extra layer or two of clothing, etc.). Buffalo also has being on the Canadian border and being an hour and a half from Toronto going for it. I moved to Sydney, Australia to be with my Aussie wife (who wants to stay here) but I see several of my friends who had moved away moving back to Buffalo to be around family and buying a house for cash under these remote work conditions - and if I was States-side I'd be considering it too...

Re: America, Stop Moving West

#57

Post by nostrademons »

munificent wrote: post #53

This is a fascinating article because at the surface level it appears to be high quality information. It looks nice. It's well written. It speaks in the kind of sweeping generalities and economic lingo that give it an air of authority. But by the time I got about 3/4 of the way through, I realized that this was basically just some random blogger's opinion piece with little to no research or data to back it up. It fal…

It's also content marketing for a content marketer who is talking her book. "Writer, growth hacker, and crypto enthusiast based on the East Coast", and her Substack is titled "Confessions of Reluctant Marketing Guru."

More power to her for going out and hustling, but understand that it - just like it's purported solution - is just marketing.

Re: America, Stop Moving West

#58

Post by systemvoltage »

mjevans wrote: post #34
nyokodo wrote: post #5

> How did we become so divorced from reality? Before criticizing those seeking a better life in questionable directions first ask why are they motivated to do so in the first place? This pattern predates COVID, what is the problem in the North East that is causing people to move south west? Answer that and you might have a clue as to why the migration is happening and what to do about it.

A missing future. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs Shelter, rent out of control, let alone a house that might be within reach of purchase, is economic insanity. We don't usually think about shortage of food, water, and comfortable temperature; within the US anyway. Not if someone has even a basic job. Housing also builds to the safety and security aspect. Relationships, a sense of belonging…

> Shelter, rent out of control, let alone a house that might be within reach of purchase, is economic insanity.

This describes west coast cities more I would say. SF Bay Area in particular.

North East has many places that are far more affordable than west coast cities. Even rural housing in California is expensive.

Re: America, Stop Moving West

#59

Post by avidphantasm »

hamburgerwah wrote: post #32

This has to be one of the sillier things I've ever seen. Highlighted in the article is Phoenix arizona in Maricopa County which is one of the most responsibly managed metropolitan areas in the country if not the world. More than 50% of the power derived from nuclear at Palos Verdes just 45 miles from the city which evaporates wastewater to drive turbines and provide cooling. Another 14% from solar. Plumbed grey water…

It doesn’t matter how efficiently the city is run. At some point, it may become impossible to support current levels of population. For instance, if drought conditions continue to be more common, there will be less and less water available, which means less wastewater for use in thermoelectric plants. Also, this means less water to maintain urban vegetation, which will also demand more water as temperatures rise and vapor pressure deficit rises. Less urban vegetation means less evapotranspiration, less latent heat flux, and greater urban heat island effects, which will further increase air conditioning & power loads above and beyond what would be the case with warmer temperatures assuming current land use/vegetation cover. It’s very easy to envision ways that places like Phoenix collapse.

Re: America, Stop Moving West

#60

Post by AnimalMuppet »

cguess wrote: post #28
filmgirlcw wrote: post #11

> For the climate-friendly but less glamorous northern cities like Albany, Worcester, and Pittsburg, a successful marketing campaign could make them the climate-proof cities of the future. Putting aside any of the climate change arguments, suggesting that successful marketing could make Albany a “city of the future” is absurd. I don’t know what you would have to pay me to be willing to live in Albany, ever, let alone…

I grew up in the midwest, and it's not a shithole. You completely forgot Minneapolis/St. Paul, Milwaukee, Madison, Detroit, Ann Arbor, Des Moines, Omaha, Indianapolis, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Toronto (not US, but still very much in the mix here), hell there are dozens of small, really cool college towns in there too. I left for personal reasons, and because I prefer super large cities but man... you're writing off A L…

> Also, Colorado is not the Midwest.

The eastern half is. Denver is the border.

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