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How California Homelessness Became a Crisis

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Re: How California Homelessness Became a Crisis

#51

Post by mycologos »

metalforever wrote: post #28
saas_sam wrote: post #18

There are three kinds of people experiencing homelessness in SF: Drug addicts, who settle in the Bay Area because it is Paradise On Earth for drug addiction. Drugs are cheap and plentiful. Dealers transact unmolested in broad daylight in front of apathetic cops. Needles are provided by the government free of charge. Tents can be pitched on just about any sidewalk. Drug use does not even need to be discreet -- anyone…

I live in the Bay Area and I have multiple friends that are homeless so let me comment here. A lot of the homeless are on disability due to some physical issue that prevents working , or are seniors. The social security checks do not pay the bills and you need an under the table side hustle in the bay to afford a room and be on social security checks. The section 8 waitlist is years long and you have to “scam” yourse…

> A lot of the homeless are on disability due to some physical issue that prevents working , or are seniors. The social security checks do not pay the bills and you need an under the table side hustle in the bay to afford a room and be on social security checks.

Naive follow-up question: why does such a person need to live in the bay area? If you're living off disability, why would you try to do it in the most expensive place in the country? Is community that important?

Re: How California Homelessness Became a Crisis

#52

Post by mc32 »

silvestrov wrote: post #30
jseliger wrote: post #11

Short answer: CA has been underbuilding housing for close to 50 years ( https://techcrunch.com/2014/04/14/sf-housing/ ) and now has a severe housing shortage, to the point where a parodic response, like "California will try absolutely anything to reduce homelessness, except build more housing" ( https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/i-will-do-anything-to-en... ) is the only reasonable one. I've worked on Prop HHH and o…

> before someone mentions "mental illness" and "drugs" they should also consider that the Nordic countries also have those problems but much fewer homeless. We don't have resources to treat all people with mental illness. The main difference to Denmark is that the city must find housing for homeless people (by law) and they get enough money to not descend into a hole they cannot get out of.

Denmark is small and they have enforceable borders.

Calif can’t tell someone from Nevada or New Mexico, don’t come here. Regardless of origin, Calif is saddled with dealing with the homeless. Denmark can contain the issue.

Re: How California Homelessness Became a Crisis

#53

Post by Flatcircle »

saas_sam wrote: post #18

There are three kinds of people experiencing homelessness in SF: Drug addicts, who settle in the Bay Area because it is Paradise On Earth for drug addiction. Drugs are cheap and plentiful. Dealers transact unmolested in broad daylight in front of apathetic cops. Needles are provided by the government free of charge. Tents can be pitched on just about any sidewalk. Drug use does not even need to be discreet -- anyone…

Saas_sam is exactly right. Why is it so unbearable to deal with this truth.

Re: How California Homelessness Became a Crisis

#54

Post by okareaman »

throw737858 wrote: post #13
okareaman wrote: post #7

I was once homeless in California, strung out on drugs and alcohol, unable to quit or even think about getting treatment for that and my bipolar disorder. It is my opinion that we need to go back to locking people up and forcing them into treatment for their own good. It is inhumane to leave helpless people out on the street because of some abstract concept of personal rights. I understand the motivation of mental he…

"California homeless are crazy" narrative is tiring and excuse. They are still people and need basic life necessities: toilet, shower and food. Periodic showers improve mental health, there are studies to prove it! After that is solved, we can focus on other issues. And frankly California invented drug culture, it glorifies drugs, why shame homeless? If Jordan can accept 3 million people, so can California.

The functional people who become homeless usually don't stay homeless because they are able to take advantage of services. There are some new methods being tried by providing temporary tent cities for these people with showers and such. A strict no drugs or alcohol policy in the tent city. When people speak of "The homeless problem" it's usually in regards to the chronically homeless who are addicted and/or mentally ill who won't stay in these regulated tent cities.

Re: How California Homelessness Became a Crisis

#55

Post by finiteseries »

throw737858 wrote: post #13
okareaman wrote: post #7

I was once homeless in California, strung out on drugs and alcohol, unable to quit or even think about getting treatment for that and my bipolar disorder. It is my opinion that we need to go back to locking people up and forcing them into treatment for their own good. It is inhumane to leave helpless people out on the street because of some abstract concept of personal rights. I understand the motivation of mental he…

"California homeless are crazy" narrative is tiring and excuse. They are still people and need basic life necessities: toilet, shower and food. Periodic showers improve mental health, there are studies to prove it! After that is solved, we can focus on other issues. And frankly California invented drug culture, it glorifies drugs, why shame homeless? If Jordan can accept 3 million people, so can California.

I think one can be generous here and assume the treatment centers mentioned in their comment would have running water, and access to e.g. food.

Re: How California Homelessness Became a Crisis

#56

Post by handmodel »

jeffbee wrote: post #50
handmodel wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the population of California were to grow by 35% in the next 30 years but only 5% more housing units were built - do you posit the housing prices would get more expensive or less? That is pretty much what has happened. It is clear building more lowers the average. Keep in mind that homeless people may not have even been in "affordable housing" five years ago! Imagine how much better financial situation someone who…

The marginal economic model of housing is much easier to explain. If I were to bulldoze a million houses, what would happen to the price of houses? Now what happens if I build a million houses?

100% agree.

I understand induced demand can exist but this is a second order effect that is clearly far less impactful than the first order effect of supply and demand.

Re: How California Homelessness Became a Crisis

#57

Post by anoncake »

mc32 wrote: post #52
silvestrov wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> before someone mentions "mental illness" and "drugs" they should also consider that the Nordic countries also have those problems but much fewer homeless. We don't have resources to treat all people with mental illness. The main difference to Denmark is that the city must find housing for homeless people (by law) and they get enough money to not descend into a hole they cannot get out of.

Denmark is small and they have enforceable borders. Calif can’t tell someone from Nevada or New Mexico, don’t come here. Regardless of origin, Calif is saddled with dealing with the homeless. Denmark can contain the issue.

Size is irrelevant (less people = less resources to take care of less homeless) and Denmark is part of the Schengen area.

Re: How California Homelessness Became a Crisis

#58

Post by evancox100 »

barathr wrote: post #34
evancox100 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think this phrasing is the worst progressive “improvement” in language (that award goes to “Latinx”, seriously please stop using this), but it is kind of awkward and the standard is not applied evenly. We don’t say someone is “experiencing hunger”, we say they’re hungry, despite hunger typically being a temporary condition. Edit: your point about the need to understand the background level of housing instabil…

In some romance languages "having hunger" is literally how one expresses that someone is hungry...

Yes, for example “tengo hambre" in Spanish. But the point is how are we using English to convey these things

Re: How California Homelessness Became a Crisis

#59

Post by Pet_Ant »

throw737858 wrote: post #48
jseliger wrote: post #11

Short answer: CA has been underbuilding housing for close to 50 years ( https://techcrunch.com/2014/04/14/sf-housing/ ) and now has a severe housing shortage, to the point where a parodic response, like "California will try absolutely anything to reduce homelessness, except build more housing" ( https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/i-will-do-anything-to-en... ) is the only reasonable one. I've worked on Prop HHH and o…

Most homeless people can build their own houses/shelters. But cities should provide access points for water, electricity and other utilities. And it should be illegal to bulldoze structure where somebody lives!

> it should be illegal to bulldoze structure where somebody lives!

If you buy an empty lot as an investment, and then the city grows and you want to sell that lot so that a developer can build a high-rise, you want to stop them? I mean unless you want to ban ownership of land then you are in a tricky resource. What if someone builds a lean-to in your hedge?

If anything, maybe we need to zone areas for improvised housing. Would make it easier to police for violence and to provide access to community resources.

Re: How California Homelessness Became a Crisis

#60

Post by okareaman »

h2odragon wrote: post #47
okareaman wrote: post #7

I was once homeless in California, strung out on drugs and alcohol, unable to quit or even think about getting treatment for that and my bipolar disorder. It is my opinion that we need to go back to locking people up and forcing them into treatment for their own good. It is inhumane to leave helpless people out on the street because of some abstract concept of personal rights. I understand the motivation of mental he…

Appreciate your speaking up with an unpopular opinion; I fear coerced treatments because individuals vary more than medical practice allows for. For example, there's people for whom opioids do not provide any pain relief; but try getting a doctor to understand that you're one of those people. You'll get the opiate pills prescribed anyway, and noted as a foolish drug seeker to boot.

There's always going to be issues like this. They can be solved. We shouldn't let smaller issues cloud our judgement about the larger issue, which is that woman screaming at the trees was someone's daughter. That man sprawled out naked and drunk in the bushes was once someone with friends and family, all gone now because no one can help him. The state needs to step in and take care of these people, against their will at least until they are well enough to decide for themselves.
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