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Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors

farms.com

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Re: Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors

#51

Post by taurath »

the_biot wrote: post #39

There is a lot of misinformation about this. At face value, articles like this imply you're not able or allowed to fix mechanical issues, how dare they! What they don't mention is that manufacturers protect their electronic gear i.e. the consoles inside the machine that use GPS to run a field, adjust the attachment acccording to various sensors etc. This is very sophisticated stuff, and farmers need and want this fun…

They want to be able to make adjustments, and fix mechanical issues without the whole thing shutting down and then having to take it to the one place in town that is allowed to touch the thing.

It’s one thing to say oh only the new stuff is locked down, but every part of the vehicle is, something that wasn’t the case a short while ago. In fact they’re digitizing controls and simple mechanical functionality that doesnt need to be digitized so they can abuse their maintenance monopoly.

Re: Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors

#52

Post by haspok »

the_biot wrote: post #39

There is a lot of misinformation about this. At face value, articles like this imply you're not able or allowed to fix mechanical issues, how dare they! What they don't mention is that manufacturers protect their electronic gear i.e. the consoles inside the machine that use GPS to run a field, adjust the attachment acccording to various sensors etc. This is very sophisticated stuff, and farmers need and want this fun…

> in particular don't want to pay for it

This is a complete misunderstanding of the problem, also, a false statement in most cases.

People would like to have the option to choose who, when, where and how repairs their stuff. If the only option is the manufacturer - even after the warranty period -, then that's called a monopoly and is guaranteed to result in lower standards and higher prices and reduced availability.

It is one thing to have such a problem with a laptop or a mobile, because those are relatively cheap items that are easy to replace. But if you have equipment that your livelihood depends on worth tens of thousands of dollars, then this is completely unacceptable.

Re: Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors

#53

Post by willtim »

buro9 wrote: post #37

No-one wants to sell hardware any longer, it's not as profitable as providing it on a subscription (dare we say "rent") and forcing all support, maintenance and additions to go through your channels as part of the subscription package. Unfortunately this trend is everywhere now. It happened to servers, media, has started to happen to cars... but it's happened already to agricultural hardware. Super profitable if you…

The flipside to this, is that there is perhaps no longer an incentive to sell hardware with a limited lifespan.

Re: Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors

#54

Post by liaukovv »

willtim wrote: post #53
buro9 wrote: post #37

No-one wants to sell hardware any longer, it's not as profitable as providing it on a subscription (dare we say "rent") and forcing all support, maintenance and additions to go through your channels as part of the subscription package. Unfortunately this trend is everywhere now. It happened to servers, media, has started to happen to cars... but it's happened already to agricultural hardware. Super profitable if you…

The flipside to this, is that there is perhaps no longer an incentive to sell hardware with a limited lifespan.

Thats the point though isn't it, they dont sell it anymore.

So any gains in lifespan are reaped by the company, not consumer

Re: Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors

#55

Post by teachingassist »

willtim wrote: post #53
buro9 wrote: post #37

No-one wants to sell hardware any longer, it's not as profitable as providing it on a subscription (dare we say "rent") and forcing all support, maintenance and additions to go through your channels as part of the subscription package. Unfortunately this trend is everywhere now. It happened to servers, media, has started to happen to cars... but it's happened already to agricultural hardware. Super profitable if you…

The flipside to this, is that there is perhaps no longer an incentive to sell hardware with a limited lifespan.

The opposite, surely.

If there's no market for old hardware, there's no benefit to making new products which hold their value.

Re: Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors

#56

Post by lbriner »

haspok wrote: post #52
the_biot wrote: post #39

There is a lot of misinformation about this. At face value, articles like this imply you're not able or allowed to fix mechanical issues, how dare they! What they don't mention is that manufacturers protect their electronic gear i.e. the consoles inside the machine that use GPS to run a field, adjust the attachment acccording to various sensors etc. This is very sophisticated stuff, and farmers need and want this fun…

> in particular don't want to pay for it This is a complete misunderstanding of the problem, also, a false statement in most cases. People would like to have the option to choose who, when, where and how repairs their stuff. If the only option is the manufacturer - even after the warranty period -, then that's called a monopoly and is guaranteed to result in lower standards and higher prices and reduced availability.…

It's not called a monopoly. A monopoly is a single provider of a particular service or product allowing the supplier to abuse their position.

These farmers do not have to buy John Deere. If they don't like being tied in, they shouldn't have bought the equipment in the first place and chosen a rival then one of two things happen 1) John Deere realise they have been caught with their pants down and change their policy to win customers back 2) Farmers realise there is a new normal where the equipment is simply too complicated to allow them to tinker with it (or at least without losing any manufacturers guarantee).

Re: Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors

#57

Post by DoingIsLearning »

the_biot wrote: post #39

There is a lot of misinformation about this. At face value, articles like this imply you're not able or allowed to fix mechanical issues, how dare they! What they don't mention is that manufacturers protect their electronic gear i.e. the consoles inside the machine that use GPS to run a field, adjust the attachment acccording to various sensors etc. This is very sophisticated stuff, and farmers need and want this fun…

One concern I also never see discussed is that for any type of electro-mechanical system, allowing the customer to change anything or maintain anything is a actually a big liability issue.

Let's be clear, it is pretty obvious that the whole tractor-as-a-service paradigm is extremely profitable. However allowing access to diagnostics/config/firmware for anything that controls heavy machinery can be a huge liability.

You are a misconfiguration away from a work accident with injury or death.

Re: Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors

#58

Post by BeFlatXIII »

_wldu wrote: post #50

Old tractors are bringing top dollar at auctions (and have been for some time now). IMO, the same thing will happen with old cars/trucks some day. Now, they are mostly hobby cars for collectors and auto enthusiasts, but some day will be widely sought after due to more people wanting/needing to repair them. Late 80s and early 90s Toyotas will be sold at a premium as will any/all old Ford F-150 trucks.

In the year 2121, the Toyota Hilux will still be the go-to choice for aspiring warlords. The difference is that they may have competition from Americans who want a repairable vehicle.

Re: Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors

#59

Post by praptak »

This kind of anti-consumer lock in seems to be the natural course of things when more and more stuff runs software which the buyer has no control over. I don't think we can fight this with consumer decisions only, it is just too profitable to shakedown consumers like this.

Re: Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors

#60

Post by helsinkiandrew »

If John Deere were being honest they wouldn't sell tractors, but lease them with the cost of repair built into the yearly fee. If "parts and repairs are up to six times more profitable than selling the equipment itself" eventually they will ruin their brand and people will purchase other brands.
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