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Once a bastion of free speech, the ACLU faces an identity crisis

nytimes.com

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Re: Once a bastion of free speech, the ACLU faces an identity crisis

#51

Post by wearywanderer »

myWindoonn wrote: post #6

They phoned me earlier this year and asked for $1500 USD. I asked them why we live in a country where people are starving, exposed, and sick in a country that has a bounty of food, housing, and healthcare. “Liberals are leaving the First Amendment behind,” says a person who probably has all three of those things. Feed people, and then ask for virtues from them.

> “Liberals are leaving the First Amendment behind,”

That's nonsensical. If somebody leaves the First Amendment behind, they are leaving liberalism behind. If you do not support free speech, you simply are not liberal.

Re: Once a bastion of free speech, the ACLU faces an identity crisis

#52

Post by Nimitz14 »

notwedtm wrote: post #24
wutbrodo wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"fire org" and "fire civil liberties" both return the correct result in the first ranking. It really isn't that difficult

Perhaps, but then YOU are not doing it the service it deserves by simply slapping it in there and not providing any context. This is the problem with the whole "DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH" retort that lots of political arguments deteriorate into. If YOU have already done said research, and you have an informed opinion from said research, then you should share it directly in the conversation at hand. Not only do you avoid l…

RTFA

Re: Once a bastion of free speech, the ACLU faces an identity crisis

#53

Post by JohnTHaller »

kbelder wrote: post #12

I honestly think they were compromised from the very beginning, with their mission of "defending every civil right... except the 2nd amendment, we don't like that one." But they still fought lots of commendable battles, sticking up for people that nobody else would. I think that's what they've lost... they would be scared to stick up for somebody that might get the wrong people upset with them.

"ACLU Position:

Given the reference to "a well regulated Militia" and "the security of a free State," the ACLU has long taken the position that the Second Amendment protects a collective right rather than an individual right."

https://www.aclu.org/other/second-amendment

Re: Once a bastion of free speech, the ACLU faces an identity crisis

#55

Post by wearywanderer »

Nicksil wrote: post #14
baggy_trough wrote: post #9

Despite the sad loss of the ACLU as an institution that cares about civil liberties, we can remain hopeful due to other organizations like FIRE. https://www.thefire.org

>Despite the sad loss of the ACLU as an institution that cares about civil liberties, we can remain hopeful due to other organizations like FIRE. You're just going to leave it there? What/who is FIRE? This isn't one of those unique words easily discovered during a web search.

Type FIRE into wikipedia and you get a list of 13 choices. One of those 13 matches the context of this conversation: Foundation for Individual Rights in Education, a civil liberties organization in the US

Re: Once a bastion of free speech, the ACLU faces an identity crisis

#57

Post by hed »

joshuamorton wrote: post #34
nxc18 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same. I was turned off by the “my way or the highway” mentality on trans issues shown in their Twitter. Failure to defend 2A rights, now that NRA is clearly not principled in any way (maybe it never was), also bothered me. It is hard to imagine them defending an anti-trans person in 2021. As despicable as those people are, they still have civil rights. As a gay man, I would have been despicable for most of the past 1…

The ACLU has never defended or supported Hellerian 2A rights ( https://www.aclu.org/other/second-amendment ), and its not clear that they should change their position due to a shift in SC precedent, anymore than that they should shift their position on speech if the SC decided to revert to Schenck .

Once they came out after Heller and stated they still believed it was a collective right, I knew my relationship with them was over.

ACLU (and others) cite it as a 5-4 decision but even the dissenters on the case believed it was an individual right, they just still thought it could be regulated / scrutinized. In that sense the individual right won 9-0.

Re: Once a bastion of free speech, the ACLU faces an identity crisis

#58

Post by stirfish »

nxc18 wrote: post #21
jseliger wrote: post #2

I was a member for 10 years and stopped renewing a year or two ago, when it seemed to stop putting free speech and expression first.

Same. I was turned off by the “my way or the highway” mentality on trans issues shown in their Twitter. Failure to defend 2A rights, now that NRA is clearly not principled in any way (maybe it never was), also bothered me. It is hard to imagine them defending an anti-trans person in 2021. As despicable as those people are, they still have civil rights. As a gay man, I would have been despicable for most of the past 1…

The NRA started as a way to retrain Union soldiers to actually aim their weapons instead of volleying them, as they were no longer using smooth-bored muskets. If that's a principle, they did that.

I'm not sure why they became a weird mix of Russians and the KKK.

Re: Once a bastion of free speech, the ACLU faces an identity crisis

#59

Post by nzrf »

Avshalom wrote: post #49
tpmx wrote: post #22

I like this idea: https://twitter.com/kittypurrzog/status/1401610476237197312 The ACLU should split into two groups: ACLU Sr, which fights for free speech rights, and ACLU Jr, which fights against them (Yes, I saw this when PG retweeted it.)

You know free speech isn't the only civil liberty right?

Much like they just stay out of 2nd amendment…

https://www.aclu.org/blog/civil-liberties/mobilization/aclus...

As I support their efforts generally. I find picking and choosing seems counter to the what protecting our civil liberties means in a whole.

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