Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why we should end the data economy

thereboot.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 390 posts

Re: Why we should end the data economy

#51

Post by tomc1985 »

Barraketh wrote: post #42

Honestly, I'm kind of sick of how bad a rap advertising gets. Now sure, companies knowing a lot about your personal life is creepy on an intuitive level, but the fact of the matter is that cookie tracking data has NEVER been associated with any leak or data breach that resulted in personal harm. The thing people SHOULD be worried about is stuff like the Experian leak, where credit companies collect your non-anonymize…

Data can still be anonymized and dangerous. In extreme cases de-anonymization is available and for all the rest it still results in the targeted individual being exposed to manipulations and attempts at influence. And the amount of influence that advertisers wield absolutely needs to be curbed to an absolute minimum or, even better, non existence. People need to be making decisions on their own rational self-interest and not emotional overtures amplified by an intimate understanding of someone's fears and sensitivities.

Re: Why we should end the data economy

#52

Post by atomicbeanie »

Hogwash. Sharing data and having it stolen are two different things. Luddites did not account for what their idea of the future would miss out on. The data future offers new opportunities in reality based communication.

Working on serious problems like climate change would be hobbled without the rise of the data economy. But to be an economy it must have rules that protect private, personal and ethically important entities.

Re: Why we should end the data economy

#53

Post by SonicScrub »

brokencode wrote: post #27
rhacker wrote: post #10

We need to go back to the TV model. I mean we sold things back in 1995 right? You go to a website about babies, you get baby ads. You go to a website about electrified fences, you get ads for trucks, tractors, backhoe rentals (even in your area because of your IP address - but that's it) It's damn near equivalent to local / cable TV.

Does anybody know if targeted ads based on tracking even work? Are they worth all the extra cost and complexity compared to traditional ads? It doesn’t seem like it. Half the time I see a super-targeted ad, it’s for a product I already purchased. Also, what ever happened to showing ads to people who aren’t already interested in your product to expand your brand and maybe bring in new customers? The current ad model f…

Yes, yes they do work. That's why it's a billion dollar industry. It allows industries to micro-target specific ads for communities and speak to them directly. It gives you more ability to expand your brand to new customers, not less, as it allows to you to specifically target niche groups who previously had no interest in you. It's important to get a sense of the extreme level of refinement that firms have access to through data-driven marketing. Want to design a marketing campaign for dog-owning, outdoorsy lesbians? Subaru launched an ad campaign in the 90s using subtle coding in their wide-net ads. Now companies can do that much more effectively by directly targeting those communities.

As for the common complaint that you always see ads for products you already purchased, that's actually a very good time to make an impression. What are the odds that you are thinking about buying a new dishwasher at any given moment? Probably next to 0. You probably would completely ignore any dishwasher ad you saw. Now imagine you just replaced your dishwasher with a new one. You probably noticed that dishwasher ad now. You might have even clicked on it to see if you got a good deal on it. You probably care more right now about dishwasher specs than you ever have in your life up to this point. Maybe there's a better deal out there. This is the perfect time to send you more dishwasher ads.

Re: Why we should end the data economy

#54

Post by cs702 »

No one sane would ever want their relatives, friends, work colleagues, and neighbors to be able to know (quoting from the OP):

> who you sleep with because both you and the person you share your bed with keep your phones nearby

> whether you sleep soundly at night or whether your troubles are keeping you up

> whether you pick up your phone in the middle of the night and search for things like "loan repayment"

> your IQ based on the pages you "like" on Facebook and the friends you have

> your restaurant visits and shopping habits

> how fast you drive, even if you don't have a smart car, because your phone contains an accelerometer

> your life expectancy based on how fast you walk, as measured by your phone

> whether you suffer from depression by how you slide your finger across your phone’s screen

> if your spouse is considering leaving you because she's been searching online for a divorce lawyer

No one sane is OK with corporations, governments, and other third parties being able to obtain and save this information either -- especially if their only hurdle is to get you to click "OK" to agree to some legal agreement almost no one has the time to read or expertise to understand in its full implications.

We need a New Declaration of Human Rights for the 21st century that takes into account rapidly advancing technologies for collecting and acting on data at mass scale.

Re: Why we should end the data economy

#55

Post by Toks »

KyleBerezin wrote: post #46
Barraketh wrote: post #42

Honestly, I'm kind of sick of how bad a rap advertising gets. Now sure, companies knowing a lot about your personal life is creepy on an intuitive level, but the fact of the matter is that cookie tracking data has NEVER been associated with any leak or data breach that resulted in personal harm. The thing people SHOULD be worried about is stuff like the Experian leak, where credit companies collect your non-anonymize…

I want a system that tracks me and is 100% transparent to me.

Exactly. It's not the tracking that is the problem, it's the lack of control/transparency. I want a personal data bank where I can decide who knows what about me.

Re: Why we should end the data economy

#56

Post by 29athrowaway »

If you can't hide your activity just pollute their data to the point it becomes unuseable. Give them data that makes them lose money.

Search random stuff you are not interested in and see them desperately throw money into the toilet.

Search plane tickets to Congo, saxophones, windsurf equipment, paintings of toucans... the most random shit you can think of.

Then you will start seeing ads for that, which is seeing the ad tech imploding in front of your eyes.

The more you do it and the more other people do it, the less profitable ad tech becomes.

Also search for stuff outside your demographics, like stuff for older people, so they get your profile wrong.

Re: Why we should end the data economy

#57

Post by cevered »

I highly suggest you guys checkout Decentr. They are building blockchain platform that allows individuals to have ownership over their personal data to exchange and leverage for economic benefits in a decentralized and secure way. I think it's false to say we can't collect data in a secure way therefore stop the data economy. We should be seeking to empower individuals with the ownership of their own data to create a true data economy.

Re: Why we should end the data economy

#58

Post by kapp_in_life »

brokencode wrote: post #27
rhacker wrote: post #10

We need to go back to the TV model. I mean we sold things back in 1995 right? You go to a website about babies, you get baby ads. You go to a website about electrified fences, you get ads for trucks, tractors, backhoe rentals (even in your area because of your IP address - but that's it) It's damn near equivalent to local / cable TV.

Does anybody know if targeted ads based on tracking even work? Are they worth all the extra cost and complexity compared to traditional ads? It doesn’t seem like it. Half the time I see a super-targeted ad, it’s for a product I already purchased. Also, what ever happened to showing ads to people who aren’t already interested in your product to expand your brand and maybe bring in new customers? The current ad model f…

Absolutely. A vegetarian/vegan restaurant being able to advertise exclusively to those people is one great example. In that example you're a new customer, but you've shown interest in similar products so you're much more likely of a customer(and better spend of advertising) than advertising to somebody on a carnivore diet.

Re: Why we should end the data economy

#59

Post by drocer88 »

Barraketh wrote: post #42

Honestly, I'm kind of sick of how bad a rap advertising gets. Now sure, companies knowing a lot about your personal life is creepy on an intuitive level, but the fact of the matter is that cookie tracking data has NEVER been associated with any leak or data breach that resulted in personal harm. The thing people SHOULD be worried about is stuff like the Experian leak, where credit companies collect your non-anonymize…

"but the fact of the matter is that cookie tracking data has NEVER been associated with any leak or data breach that resulted in personal harm"

Do you have a link for this?

Re: Why we should end the data economy

#60

Post by bobthechef »

Articles that make declarations about how bad X is and then follow that up with empty calls to action like "We need to end X" to get people nodding their heads in agreement are common and cheap. What's your solution? Is there one?

Sure, you can draw attention to something bad, but if all you ever do is live off the drama and frantically declare that X "needs to stop" (I loathe that airheaded phrase like few others), what good are you? Who's going to stop it? Passive voice does not impress. When I need to eat, I eat. I don't say "I need to eat" and leave it at that. I'd starve.

Clearly you think it can be stopped. Clearly you think it's not just an unfortunate malady of the age that we must bear. You think it can be fixed. Where's your proposal? How are we going to shift the tech economy away from surveillance?

The growth of the data economy is like the growth of finance. Neither finance nor data gathering actually produce anything. They can help produce something, inform or facilitate the production, but it's not productive in itself. In the limit, you're left with a hot potato economy where people gather data to sell for the purpose of gathering more data.

Maybe this is incentivized by the killing of the industrial base. Everything we buy is from China. All the US does is consume.

Post reply on HN