Anthropologists and the business of sense-making at work • Hacker News Board

Re: Anthropologists and the business of sense-making at work

#51

Post by soco » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 7:55 AM UTC

lordnacho wrote: post #35

SilverRed wrote: post #2

It almost feels like there is a conspiracy brewing to talk down on WFH despite most employees loving it. I suspect that the commercial property owners and middle managers are behind this because they are the ones who have mostly lost out here. The cat is out of the bag I think. Once people can work from home in a post covid world where they can socialize normally, I think many companies, and especially in software de…

I think commercial property in the old form is screwed. Nearly every office job type firm is now offering reduced time in the office, with a few standouts still holding on to full time on site. That's my personal survey anyway, having talked to quite a number of them over the last few weeks. You can tell on some hiring managers that they'd really rather have people in the office, but they can see where the market is…

I somehow believe the old firms will simply reduce their rented space, and let you have fun at home. I really feel bad for the coffee shops, it's just a mandatory office presence cannot be based on the interests of some other company :( feels guilty

Re: Anthropologists and the business of sense-making at work

#52

Post by jolux » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 7:56 AM UTC

anthropodie wrote: post #44

jolux wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I have to work in the same room that I sleep in, and I only have one monitor and one desk.

I understand. But if you could choose permanent work from home would you really work from the same room? In my case, I would ditch my apartment go back to my hometown build a home with a dedicated office.

I wouldn’t choose it because I don’t like it. I’m not going to change a housing situation I like a lot just to make it easier to work from where I live. That’s the opposite of work-life balance, to me.

Re: Anthropologists and the business of sense-making at work

#53

Post by ppf » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 7:56 AM UTC

SilverRed wrote: post #2

It almost feels like there is a conspiracy brewing to talk down on WFH despite most employees loving it. I suspect that the commercial property owners and middle managers are behind this because they are the ones who have mostly lost out here. The cat is out of the bag I think. Once people can work from home in a post covid world where they can socialize normally, I think many companies, and especially in software de…

A conspiracy? From the independent and free-thinking Guardian? If they have been infiltrated by money-grabbing property ownwers, then there is no hope!

Seriously though. I think that the Covid enforced WFH has shown many people that there are many benefits to at least some form of in-person, workplace-based interaction. Not everyone is a software developer who can just get on with the work with only a laptop.

Re: Anthropologists and the business of sense-making at work

#54

Post by teddyh » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 7:58 AM UTC

oDot wrote: post #4

I wrote a booklet[0] about being thrown into remote work, and as I gathered, really the only objections are the likes of this article, something along the lines of "We had this good thing in the office and now we don't have it therefore we need the office". They all fail to use the important lesson Henry Hazlitt thought us: > The art of economics consists in looking not merely at the immediate but at the longer effec…

That’s more of a monograph than a booklet.

Re: Anthropologists and the business of sense-making at work

#55

Post by lordnacho » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 8:01 AM UTC

For most jobs, I would say working from home is just fine.

But I've also worked on a trading floor.

The difference is that on the trading floor, every interaction is mutexed. You can talk to one person at a time, or you can shout down one line at a time. Someone comes to your desk and they get nothing until the previous conversation ends.

This works because you're mostly happy to delay whatever longer running projects you have on your desk, like fixing a spreadsheet. And because the information coming in on those conversations is high value, requiring immediate decisions.

Most people are not doing things in this way. If you're deep coding, you especially don't want someone to come and bother you. There's not much value in immediate interruption.

Re: Anthropologists and the business of sense-making at work

#56

Post by zimpenfish » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 8:02 AM UTC

jmfldn wrote: post #41

anthropodie wrote: post #36

It will take years before we have settled on work from home or office. I don't think a mix will exist, either entire team will WFH or WFO. The good thing is the experiment has started. Many companies are becoming remote friendly. The long term effects of WFH on companies success will determine whether it will be WFH or WFO. Whatever it is the rest of companies will have to adapt to new paradigm.

I prefer the hybrid option but faced with the binary choice I would choose WFH. I'd forego money and even career opportunities for it. As long as I can pay the bills and do reasonably interesting and useful work it will be hard to lure me back. Maybe I'm an outlier but I suspect I'm part of a significant demographic at least.

> I would choose WFH. I'd forego money and even career opportunities for it.

Same. At least when I'm forced into (occasionally multi-)hour-long meetings that have no relevance to me, I can wander about doing chores whilst half-listening rather than being sat in an airless room wondering how I made such bad life choices as to end up there.

Re: Anthropologists and the business of sense-making at work

#57

Post by dang » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 8:03 AM UTC

All: this is a particularly information-rich and thoughtful essay which deserves better than its generic hot-topic title. HN has had dozens of generic WfH threads in the last year (actually, in every year). This deserves better, so please take some time to read and consider and comment on specific insights or details in the OP, and try to avoid generic "WfH: Yay vs. Boo".

Edit: I've pinched some language from the text that is more representative of what's different about the article, and put it in the title above. Diffs are what's interesting: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so....

Re: Anthropologists and the business of sense-making at work

#58

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 8:06 AM UTC

zimpenfish wrote: post #45

darkwater wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know where you live but you should also keep in mind that in many places of the world commuting is done within a metropolitan area, and usually with public transportation (trains, buses, subways etc) so while it still takes away time it's not that catastrophic on the environmental side. And there are people who likes to physically separate their personal life from their work life. And I'm a pre-pandemic remot…

> I don't really understand why WFH enthusiasts are usually so radical on this topic. I venture that it's partially down to years of "NO, WFH would RUIN the business and CATASTROPHISE us into BANKRUPTCY!!!" from businesses when people requested it and ... it turned out to be bullshit, everything pretty much worked ok when everyone was WFH, and people are not minded to let business slip back into their previous bullsh…

[deleted]

Re: Anthropologists and the business of sense-making at work

#59

Post by citizenpaul » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 8:15 AM UTC

zimpenfish wrote: post #45

darkwater wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know where you live but you should also keep in mind that in many places of the world commuting is done within a metropolitan area, and usually with public transportation (trains, buses, subways etc) so while it still takes away time it's not that catastrophic on the environmental side. And there are people who likes to physically separate their personal life from their work life. And I'm a pre-pandemic remot…

> I don't really understand why WFH enthusiasts are usually so radical on this topic. I venture that it's partially down to years of "NO, WFH would RUIN the business and CATASTROPHISE us into BANKRUPTCY!!!" from businesses when people requested it and ... it turned out to be bullshit, everything pretty much worked ok when everyone was WFH, and people are not minded to let business slip back into their previous bullsh…

I was at one of those places. The owner,board,Upper mgmt would have a hissy fit (sometimes literally) when anyone requested any sort of work from home condition. Declaring (sometimes screaming) that the business would go under nothing would get done, ect,ect.. They couldn't manage things that way. Even though we would often go months without hearing from any of these aforementioned people.

Then the Thanos *snap happened and one day we all had to be WFH almost overnight. What changed? Literally nothing except better more humane working conditions. Everything got done business is still fine.

So are some of us bitter about it? Definitely.

Re: Anthropologists and the business of sense-making at work

#60

Post by halayli » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 8:22 AM UTC

There are pros and cons to wfh vs office and each individual will weigh them according to what they value more. The pros can be cons to the other group and vice versa.

I hope this topic shift in the right direction and focuses on the steps employers need to take to let employees decide for themselves and ensure equal opportunity regardless of what choice they've taken.