Xbox co-pilot mode changed disabled sister’s life • Hacker News Board

Re: Xbox co-pilot mode changed disabled sister’s life

#51

Post by cldellow » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 3:52 PM UTC

tyleo wrote: post #37

I love co-pilot. Throughout the pandemic my fiancé and I used the feature to play different sections of single player games as though they were multiplayer. I don’t think either one of us would consider ourselves to have a disability. I used to work on games at Microsoft and they put their money where their mouth is when it comes to accessibility. I had spent multiple days in the accessibility lab interviewing and un…

> The claim that most people will have a disability (not necessarily permanent) at some point in their life

I think it was Microsoft that came up with a great infographic illustrating that disabilities aren't a black/white thing. It broke things down by permanent vs temporary vs situational.

Something like:

- Touch / tactile - arm/hand amputation (permanent), arm in a sling (temporary), new parent cradling a baby (situational)

- Vision - blindness (permanent), cataracts (temporary), distracted driver (situational)

- Hearing - deafness (permanent), ear infection (temporary), bartender in a noisy bar (situational)

- Speaking - non-verbal (permanent), laryngitis (temporary), interacting with a heavy accent (situational)

When framed like this, it seems much easier to make the case for accessible products, versus as an afterthought.

Re: Xbox co-pilot mode changed disabled sister’s life

#52

Post by sangnoir » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 4:19 PM UTC

Cu3PO42 wrote: post #4

corysama wrote: post #2

Also, the Xbox Adaptive Controller deserves a lot of respect. https://www.xbox.com/en-US/accessories/controllers/xbox-adap... That’s not a token effort or a cash-in. The team behind it really gave a damn.

Yes, it's absolutely wonderful. I hope to never need it, but I'm so happy it exists for everyone that does. It also shows why controller compatibility between consoles might be more important than one would think: the "native" controllers might just be inaccessible. If you want to play on a Switch, you can use an adapter [0] to use the Adaptive Controller. Similar products exist for the PS4, I believe. Hopefully some…

> Hopefully someone reverses the protocol DualSense speaks with PS5 sooner rather than later and can make an adapter for that as well.

Sony recently[1] mainlined its DualSense 5 driver to the Linux kernel, so reversing the protocol shouldn't be difficult. There previously were a couple of open-source 3rd party drivers for older DualShock controllers - I use a DS 4 controller for all Steam on Linux games and it works very well: most games recognize it as a PlayStation controller, display the correct button symbols on help screens and QTEs

1. Dec 2020 - https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Sony-HID...

Re: Xbox co-pilot mode changed disabled sister’s life

#53

Post by sangnoir » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 4:25 PM UTC

devwastaken wrote: post #6

Cu3PO42 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it's absolutely wonderful. I hope to never need it, but I'm so happy it exists for everyone that does. It also shows why controller compatibility between consoles might be more important than one would think: the "native" controllers might just be inaccessible. If you want to play on a Switch, you can use an adapter [0] to use the Adaptive Controller. Similar products exist for the PS4, I believe. Hopefully some…

IIRC Sony puts DRM in their controllers, there's a chip with a key on it that Sony only gives out to selected partners. I'm not sure how 3rd party companies did it without the chip but afaik the method is not open source.

You probably aren't remembering correctly: the protocol for DualShock 4 (PS4 controller) was reversed - there's a working userspace driver[1] that I have used for years to play games on Linux using a DS4 controller, connected via Bluetooth. More radically, Sony recently published an official Linux driver[2] for DualSense 5 - none of these require a "DRM chip" or additional hardware to use.

1. https://github.com/chrippa/ds4drv

2. https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Sony-HID...

Re: Xbox co-pilot mode changed disabled sister’s life

#54

Post by evilpie » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 6:31 PM UTC

cldellow wrote: post #51

tyleo wrote: post #37

I love co-pilot. Throughout the pandemic my fiancé and I used the feature to play different sections of single player games as though they were multiplayer. I don’t think either one of us would consider ourselves to have a disability. I used to work on games at Microsoft and they put their money where their mouth is when it comes to accessibility. I had spent multiple days in the accessibility lab interviewing and un…

> The claim that most people will have a disability (not necessarily permanent) at some point in their life I think it was Microsoft that came up with a great infographic illustrating that disabilities aren't a black/white thing. It broke things down by permanent vs temporary vs situational. Something like: - Touch / tactile - arm/hand amputation (permanent), arm in a sling (temporary), new parent cradling a baby (si…

I really liked that infographic when I first saw it on twitter a while ago. I found it again at https://accessibility.asu.edu/wa-helps-everyone-large-versio..., which specifies Microsoft's Inclusive Toolkit Manual as the source.

Re: Xbox co-pilot mode changed disabled sister’s life

#55

Post by JJMcJ » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 7:51 PM UTC

cldellow wrote: post #51

tyleo wrote: post #37

I love co-pilot. Throughout the pandemic my fiancé and I used the feature to play different sections of single player games as though they were multiplayer. I don’t think either one of us would consider ourselves to have a disability. I used to work on games at Microsoft and they put their money where their mouth is when it comes to accessibility. I had spent multiple days in the accessibility lab interviewing and un…

> The claim that most people will have a disability (not necessarily permanent) at some point in their life I think it was Microsoft that came up with a great infographic illustrating that disabilities aren't a black/white thing. It broke things down by permanent vs temporary vs situational. Something like: - Touch / tactile - arm/hand amputation (permanent), arm in a sling (temporary), new parent cradling a baby (si…

Also with touch: Arthritis, Carpal Tunnel and other RSI, tremors, using touch screen in bed or other awkward situations

Vision: Color blindness

And the list goes on.

Re: Xbox co-pilot mode changed disabled sister’s life

#56

Post by Cu3PO42 » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 9:56 PM UTC

sangnoir wrote: post #52

Cu3PO42 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it's absolutely wonderful. I hope to never need it, but I'm so happy it exists for everyone that does. It also shows why controller compatibility between consoles might be more important than one would think: the "native" controllers might just be inaccessible. If you want to play on a Switch, you can use an adapter [0] to use the Adaptive Controller. Similar products exist for the PS4, I believe. Hopefully some…

> Hopefully someone reverses the protocol DualSense speaks with PS5 sooner rather than later and can make an adapter for that as well. Sony recently[1] mainlined its DualSense 5 driver to the Linux kernel, so reversing the protocol shouldn't be difficult. There previously were a couple of open-source 3rd party drivers for older DualShock controllers - I use a DS 4 controller for all Steam on Linux games and it works…

Unfortunately this isn't the complete story. Being able to use a DS4/DualSense with a PC or other device is a different beast from being able to emulate a DS4/DualSense for a PS4/5.

The console actually authenticates the controller using some secret [0]. I find it very doubtful that Sony has implemented this authentication in their Linux driver and released the necessary secrets.

Unless this procedure is a part of a standard that I'm unfamiliar with that it may still need to be reversed for PS5/DualSense. We also need the secrets or use the workaround with a legitimate controller I referenced in a different comment [1, 2].

[0] https://fail0verflow.com/blog/2018/ps4-ds4/

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27378663

[2] https://www.cronusmax.com/manual/wired_controllers_connectin...

Re: Xbox co-pilot mode changed disabled sister’s life

#57

Post by thesmok » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 7:48 AM UTC

tyleo wrote: post #37

I love co-pilot. Throughout the pandemic my fiancé and I used the feature to play different sections of single player games as though they were multiplayer. I don’t think either one of us would consider ourselves to have a disability. I used to work on games at Microsoft and they put their money where their mouth is when it comes to accessibility. I had spent multiple days in the accessibility lab interviewing and un…

> most people will have a disability (not necessarily permanent) at some point in their life

I've got an eye infection when I was a teenager. It has strongly tinted my vision white, so for a couple of days I could only see outlines of big objects highlighted by skylight. From this experience I found I could still walk my usual routes without wandering off the road, as I could recognize familiar telephone poles, trees, I even remembered all the ruts in the road.