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Amazon US customers given one week to opt out of mass wireless sharing

theguardian.com

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Re: Amazon US customers given one week to opt out of mass wireless sharing

#51

Post by kstrauser »

wnevets wrote: post #27

The Security Now podcast has a great episode [1] about why this isn't as scary as the headlines make it out to be. I'm actually quite disappointed at the sheer amount of fearmongering surrounding this technology here on HN of all places. For some reason I expected HN to be better than the general tech press when it came to these things. [1] https://twit.tv/shows/security-now/episodes/796

Really? I think it's worse than most headlines make it out to be. I wrote up some thoughts at https://honeypot.net/post/tripping-on-cracked-sidewalk/ , but the TLDR is you're allowing unknown parties to bridge their network with yours. That's one single mistake in the protocol or implementation away from all sorts of horrid failure modes.

Re: Amazon US customers given one week to opt out of mass wireless sharing

#52

Post by thathndude »

rudyfink wrote: post #20
shiado wrote: post #7

What will happen is some high profile company that has a few Amazon devices on their network will have these devices exploited to gain network access and get hit with some ransomware/data theft/etc... and then there will be a big legal battle between Amazon and the hacked company and this whole idea will be shut down and consumers will get a $10 class action settlement for each device.

Maybe not? Most consumer arbitration agreements these days ban asserting class claims. This has been on the rise since 2011: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AT%26T_Mobility_LLC_v._Concepc... . In my opinion, this legal change is a huge sleeper story that is behind a number of changes in how customers are getting treated. Since customers can no longer economically avail themselves of the courts to protect themselves en-…

Some attorneys are starting to specialize in consumer arbitration. The attorneys will eventually find a way to put the squeeze on these companies as they try to change the rules.

Re: Amazon US customers given one week to opt out of mass wireless sharing

#53

Post by dec0dedab0de »

ww520 wrote: post #46
wnevets wrote: post #27

The Security Now podcast has a great episode [1] about why this isn't as scary as the headlines make it out to be. I'm actually quite disappointed at the sheer amount of fearmongering surrounding this technology here on HN of all places. For some reason I expected HN to be better than the general tech press when it came to these things. [1] https://twit.tv/shows/security-now/episodes/796

It's not just the security. It's the blatant "utilization" of the consumers' devices, bandwidth, and electricity. What's next? How about, hey, we'll mine bitcoin while your Echo is idle.

It's bad enough when internet providers do it with the rented modem/router/AP/VOIP combo devices, and then it's only the power they're stealing.

Re: Amazon US customers given one week to opt out of mass wireless sharing

#54

Post by teachingassist »

aorth wrote: post #44
teachingassist wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't particularly find it "scary", but it is monopolistic practice. Amazon are using their devices to get a lead on the competition, and in a way which consumers are unlikely to think is fair. If a company approaches me wanting to put infrastructure in my house (that only benefits them and may incur charges to me), they should normally expect to pay rent.

I think it's definitely scary. How is this even legal? In what world is it OK for Amazon to co-opt my internet connection and share it with random passers-by? Even if it's only 80kbps and 500MB/month (as another commenter pointed out), this will be just the beginning if they get their way. It will set a precedent for them and others. And they know that most people won't notice or care enough to turn it off! This is j…

There once was a time when I was happy to share my wi-fi with my neighbours.

Everyone pays for their own household now, only because of general corporate scaremongering and specific lobbying to claim that the owner is liable for misuse.

I remain surprised there isn't a bigger movement and open source infrastructure for sharing connections locally.

If I was able to share a few connections with my apartment-neighbours, that would be cheaper and more reliable than my current setup.

Re: Amazon US customers given one week to opt out of mass wireless sharing

#55

Post by kstrauser »

hellisothers wrote: post #15

I’ve seen a couple other articles like this that that to “both sides” this by claiming Apple does it with AirTags. Seems pretty disingenuous, feels like comparing faxing documents to the internet…

I've seen this, too.

Apple: Their device: "Hi, I'm an AirTag! This is my serial number!" Your device: "hey Apple, I was at (X, Y) when I saw this serial number."

Amazon: Their device: "Hi, can I send traffic through your network?" Your device: "sure, buddy!"

They're so fundamentally different that I pretty much assume a bad faith argument from people who say they're similar.

Re: Amazon US customers given one week to opt out of mass wireless sharing

#56

Post by dec0dedab0de »

Retric wrote: post #26
snegu wrote: post #13

I'm curious - is it an altruistic act to leave this functionality enabled? I'm all for making wifi access easier for people.

It’s so “smart” TV’s etc can send data home even if you don’t connect them to the internet. Longer term expect random devices you own to inject even more advertising into your daily life.

I didn't even think of this. That is terrifying.

Re: Amazon US customers given one week to opt out of mass wireless sharing

#57

Post by [deleted] »

rudyfink wrote: post #20
shiado wrote: post #7

What will happen is some high profile company that has a few Amazon devices on their network will have these devices exploited to gain network access and get hit with some ransomware/data theft/etc... and then there will be a big legal battle between Amazon and the hacked company and this whole idea will be shut down and consumers will get a $10 class action settlement for each device.

Maybe not? Most consumer arbitration agreements these days ban asserting class claims. This has been on the rise since 2011: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AT%26T_Mobility_LLC_v._Concepc... . In my opinion, this legal change is a huge sleeper story that is behind a number of changes in how customers are getting treated. Since customers can no longer economically avail themselves of the courts to protect themselves en-…

[deleted]

Re: Amazon US customers given one week to opt out of mass wireless sharing

#58

Post by eloeffler »

unyttigfjelltol wrote: post #25
eloeffler wrote: post #2

This is such a great plot beginning for a new Skynet story :)

That Skynet is funnelling data & connections into a network it constructed out of junk electronics it sold under the guise of other functionality, and thus is removing the ability of humans to airgap other Skynet devices? Seems like we're in the middle of the book to me.

I'll wait for the movie on streaming :D

Re: Amazon US customers given one week to opt out of mass wireless sharing

#59

Post by asdff »

adamredwoods wrote: post #10
SteveNuts wrote: post #6

How does this work with data caps? Is Amazon going to reimburse me for overage charges from my ISP if my neighbors are using my data?

Amazon notes this in their FAQ: it's capped at 80kbps and max of 500MB per month. I don't know if this includes Bluetooth though.

So they are stealing 500MB of your cap if they aren't compensating you.
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