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Pfizer vaccine reprograms innate immune responses

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51–60 of 75 posts

Re: Pfizer vaccine reprograms innate immune responses

#51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, vaccinating all kids is normal

Yes, with proven vaccines against debiliating diseases.

Newly developed vaccines for debilitating diseases aren't given to children indiscriminately en masse. We are dealing with a completely different scale here and we should be more careful about it.

Rushing the medical feedback process has huge potential downsides.

Re: Pfizer vaccine reprograms innate immune responses

#52
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Source please? Just by saying "statistically" does not make it true.

Trust the science

Medical science has feedback latency. Be careful about trusting brand new scientific claims that haven't gone through rigorous testing.

Re: Pfizer vaccine reprograms innate immune responses

#53
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fail to see any logical reasoning here. This research suggests an unspecific alteration to your immune system. It affects everyone who gets vaccinated, not just researchers. If you are young and healthy, there is a high chance that getting infected with COVID is harmless. Your body will deal with it in the natural way. Furthermore, the risk of getting infected at all is not 100%. I could make the same argument here…

> affects everyone who gets vaccinated, not just researchers. If you understood my comment to stand in opposition to that obvious statement, then I'm not surprised its logic escaped you. Or are you just indulging in pointless rhetoric? For most of us there are indeed more important things to worry about than Covid. So just do what society asks of you, for good reason, and move on.

> If you understood my comment to stand in opposition to that obvious statement, then I'm not surprised its logic escaped you.

Let me rephrase it: Surely you couldn't mean that there is connection between being a researcher and the risk of vaccination. Therefore, what is the logical connection between the premise and the conclusion?

> So just do what society asks of you, for good reason, and move on.

I have a response to this, but it would be inappropriate to post it here.

Re: Pfizer vaccine reprograms innate immune responses

#54
post #34
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you get COVID, statistically you’ll pass it on to a few people. Let’s hope you live amongst less selfish people so your own selfish behavior doesn’t affect other.

Source please? Just by saying "statistically" does not make it true.

R0 > 1 rings any bells?

Re: Pfizer vaccine reprograms innate immune responses

#55
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fail to see any logical reasoning here. This research suggests an unspecific alteration to your immune system. It affects everyone who gets vaccinated, not just researchers. If you are young and healthy, there is a high chance that getting infected with COVID is harmless. Your body will deal with it in the natural way. Furthermore, the risk of getting infected at all is not 100%. I could make the same argument here…

If you get COVID, statistically you’ll pass it on to a few people. Let’s hope you live amongst less selfish people so your own selfish behavior doesn’t affect other.

Statistically, I'm most likely to pass it on to 0 people, because the pareto principle applies:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7674790/

Furthermore, the people I could pass it on to are either taking the same risk as me (which is fair), or they want to but couldn't get the vaccine yet, in which case they should be vaccinated first, not me.

Re: Pfizer vaccine reprograms innate immune responses

#56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a fit man, under 30 and my Vitamin D, C and Zinc levels are high. I have zero interest in getting any covid vaccine unless forced to.

Your strategy is not optimal. If you want to be efficiently freeloading, you should not be announcing your position. Freeloading with vaccination only works if just a small enough minority of people are doing it. In order to minimize your personal risk from both covid and potential side effects of vaccination, you should be advocating for others to get vaccinated but not get the shot yourself. If you publicly announc…

I already thought about this and I fully agree! But I feel rather anonymous on this global message board.

I tell all my friends who asked for my opinion to just do what they please and lied to them that yes, I am registered for my shot. Which I am not and won't be, unless my employment or personal comfort are threatened too much.

I am also happy my elderly parents took the vaccine. A covid infection is probably more dangerous to them than the vaccine and now I can visit them without testing with a clear conscience.

Re: Pfizer vaccine reprograms innate immune responses

#57
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not that that would help anyway. That's becoming increasingly an appeal to authority. There isn't anybody to do the review that isn't a colleague or a competitor, or worse part of an established GroupThink. Peer review has had its day due to specialisation in science. The gold standard now has to be replication from the published method. Therefore: not replicated.

Peer reviewed is not the gold standard, it is the bare minimum for lay people to start paying attention.

It's an appeal to authority. Authority which is not established but the process. Increasingly it adds nothing.

Re: Pfizer vaccine reprograms innate immune responses

#58
post #3

I'm honestly pretty torn at this point which vaccine I should be going for. It seems like every week there is another article insinuating that there is some poorly understood, potentially high impact, facet of a given vaccine. Anyone else "holding out?"

I went with Moderna.

Just get it.

Analysis paralysis is the enemy of the good.

Re: Pfizer vaccine reprograms innate immune responses

#59
I'm wondering if the Moderna vaccine acts similarly, and innate training occurs mostly during the first shot seeing the VLPs and/or spike proteins. Then, perhaps more of the adaptive system generating IgGs is trained weeks after the first shot and/or reinforced during the second shot which triggers a large response, hence flu-like symptoms. Additional shots or pathogen exposure would likely not produce much of a response as it seems the innate system participates, in addition to the adaptive system. It might be because humoral and cellular elements straddle both systems, and perhaps they cooperate in some form even if they're operating in mostly different domains.

On the fungi cytokine increased responses front, I wonder if the alterations in toll-like receptors heightens fungal allergies in addition to fighting fungal infections more efficiently.

Re: Pfizer vaccine reprograms innate immune responses

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope you continue to social distance for $N years, because vaccination isn't just about you -- its about protecting those who would be at risk. It's also about reducing the risk of mutation. The more people it can infect, the greater the risk. We don't want to be dealing with a new variant that the vaccines don't protect against, and go back to square one. Being scared of a well-tested vaccine over a virus that has…

> I hope you continue to social distance for $N years, because vaccination isn't just about you -- its about protecting those who would be at risk. Those "at risk" should already have been vaccinated before the people "not at risk" have been. > It's also about reducing the risk of mutation. The more people it can infect, the greater the risk. It goes both ways: the more people that are vaccinated, the higher the sele…

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