Chiropractors are bullshit • Hacker News Board

Re: Chiropractors are bullshit

#51

Post by CarelessExpert » Sat, May 15, 2021, 2:01 PM UTC

saurik wrote: post #40

FWIW, after spending a year seeing some doctors and getting not even a friggen correct diagnosis for my in-the-end-not-actually-a-"back"-issue, I saw an osteopath (of all things, and he did, in fact, come off like a quack) who suggested I had what I had originally self-diagnosed myself with before seeing the doctors who convinced me otherwise --a sacroiliac joint dysfunction--and then (after wasting some thankfully-s…

I'm just gonna quote the last paragraph in the article (which really should have been the first for folks unwilling to read the whole thing);

> I get it, you’re going to occasionally hear a friend say that chiropractic helped him de-clutter his alcove or do 87 sun salutations… but that’s an anecdote, and data is more important, and trustworthy than anecdotes. The data on chiropractic supports that the practice is nothing more than a collection of broken promises and fake medicine.

Re: Chiropractors are bullshit

#52

Post by NickNameNick » Sat, May 15, 2021, 2:03 PM UTC

thathndude wrote: post #34

underseacables wrote: post #9

Some anecdotal evidence: I went to a chiropractor when I was first starting out as a programmer because the base of my neck was in a lot of pain from staring at the monitor. I didn’t get the whole “adjustment“ thing but putting me on a tens unit with a hot compress really did the trick.

A lot of what chiros do now is basic physical therapy. When used in conjunction with typical chiro manipulation, it’s quite helpful for the aches and pains of life. That’s why I hesitate to completely agree with an article like this. I’ll be the first to admit chiropractic limitations. However, there are real benefits when used appropriately. The problem is when the chiropractors get out over there skis, and start ta…

The (completely false) theory underlying chiropracty says that it can do .. basically everything. That's supposed to be a feature.

The 'problem' is not chiropractors failing to stay in their lane - If they follow the theory, their lane includes everything.

The problem is that the theory is still being taught, despite being trivially disproven since the invention of the x-ray.

Re: Chiropractors are bullshit

#53

Post by LBJsPNS » Sat, May 15, 2021, 2:03 PM UTC

CarelessExpert wrote: post #51

saurik wrote: post #40

FWIW, after spending a year seeing some doctors and getting not even a friggen correct diagnosis for my in-the-end-not-actually-a-"back"-issue, I saw an osteopath (of all things, and he did, in fact, come off like a quack) who suggested I had what I had originally self-diagnosed myself with before seeing the doctors who convinced me otherwise --a sacroiliac joint dysfunction--and then (after wasting some thankfully-s…

I'm just gonna quote the last paragraph in the article (which really should have been the first for folks unwilling to read the whole thing); > I get it, you’re going to occasionally hear a friend say that chiropractic helped him de-clutter his alcove or do 87 sun salutations… but that’s an anecdote, and data is more important, and trustworthy than anecdotes. The data on chiropractic supports that the practice is not…

Mmmhmm.

Selective data collection and interpretation can say pretty much anything you want it to, can't it.

Re: Chiropractors are bullshit

#54

Post by CarelessExpert » Sat, May 15, 2021, 2:04 PM UTC

LBJsPNS wrote: post #53

CarelessExpert wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm just gonna quote the last paragraph in the article (which really should have been the first for folks unwilling to read the whole thing); > I get it, you’re going to occasionally hear a friend say that chiropractic helped him de-clutter his alcove or do 87 sun salutations… but that’s an anecdote, and data is more important, and trustworthy than anecdotes. The data on chiropractic supports that the practice is not…

Mmmhmm. Selective data collection and interpretation can say pretty much anything you want it to, can't it.

Which is why we have the scientific method. Shame that the chiropractic "profession" refuses to use it.

Re: Chiropractors are bullshit

#55

Post by hn8788 » Sat, May 15, 2021, 2:04 PM UTC

Depends on the type of chiropractor you go to. Obviously the "I can cure IBS by re-aligning your spine" types are bullshit, but some of them are basically a combination of a masseuse and physical therapist. People I knew in the military were regularly referred to chiropractors as part of recovering from an injury.

Re: Chiropractors are bullshit

#56

Post by fartcannon » Sat, May 15, 2021, 2:05 PM UTC

saurik wrote: post #40

FWIW, after spending a year seeing some doctors and getting not even a friggen correct diagnosis for my in-the-end-not-actually-a-"back"-issue, I saw an osteopath (of all things, and he did, in fact, come off like a quack) who suggested I had what I had originally self-diagnosed myself with before seeing the doctors who convinced me otherwise --a sacroiliac joint dysfunction--and then (after wasting some thankfully-s…

Let me start by saying that I agree that doctors do suck. They are people and that should be enough to understand them. But all self regulating industries with a financial incentive to lie suck. I realize this topic treads deeply into quasi-religious territory so forgive me in advance, but couldn't this just be the placebo effect? Mixed with the healing effect of someone caring about you?

Maybe your physio actually got you on the way to recovery. And the chiropractor is simply taking credit.

Also what actually does an 'adjustment' do?

Just thinking out loud here.

Re: Chiropractors are bullshit

#57

Post by saurik » Sat, May 15, 2021, 2:07 PM UTC

CarelessExpert wrote: post #51

saurik wrote: post #40

FWIW, after spending a year seeing some doctors and getting not even a friggen correct diagnosis for my in-the-end-not-actually-a-"back"-issue, I saw an osteopath (of all things, and he did, in fact, come off like a quack) who suggested I had what I had originally self-diagnosed myself with before seeing the doctors who convinced me otherwise --a sacroiliac joint dysfunction--and then (after wasting some thankfully-s…

I'm just gonna quote the last paragraph in the article (which really should have been the first for folks unwilling to read the whole thing); > I get it, you’re going to occasionally hear a friend say that chiropractic helped him de-clutter his alcove or do 87 sun salutations… but that’s an anecdote, and data is more important, and trustworthy than anecdotes. The data on chiropractic supports that the practice is not…

The problem is that that doesn't actually mean "chiropractors are useless"--as it is too focused on what they are claiming to sell rather than what they are capable of--nor certainly does it mean "doctors are effective" (and, if you actually look at the studies, most of the interventions performed by orthopedic surgeons are apparently at best no better than just getting physical therapy and at worst ridiculously horrible: they are mostly short-term hacks that cause long-term tradeoffs... which might sound familiar ;P). I spent a ton of time avoiding the chiropractor because I had been indoctrinated into the world of "chiropractors are useless hacks selling snake oil" until I realized that I specifically needed to get a "grade 5 lumbopelvic mobilization" and it suddenly occurred to me "I bet a chiropractor knows how to do that!"... it turns out they do, and are a lot easier to "manipulate" (pun absolutely intended ;P) into getting what you want than physical therapists.

Re: Chiropractors are bullshit

#58

Post by VMtest » Sat, May 15, 2021, 2:08 PM UTC

HatchedLake721 wrote: post #47

What are HNers thoughts about public chiropractors that record and publish their treatments and results? I still remember Ian Rossborough (even though he got suspended after adjusting a baby) and his famous video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpNcnM0FkTM making a boy walk straight in 10 days. Honest question, is this a stunt? Scam? Fake? Magic? Bullshit?

I almost wanted to share that video over here too, but I Ctrl+F "Ian" and saw that you did that first

The channel name is Chiro Core by Dr Ian

1. https://www.youtube.com/c/ChiroCore/videos

Re: Chiropractors are bullshit

#59

Post by wizzwizz4 » Sat, May 15, 2021, 2:09 PM UTC

CarelessExpert wrote: post #54

LBJsPNS wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mmmhmm. Selective data collection and interpretation can say pretty much anything you want it to, can't it.

Which is why we have the scientific method. Shame that the chiropractic "profession" refuses to use it.

That doesn't mean that no chiropractors use it.

And even the quackiest quack's “I've seen this problem before, this fixed it” is better than the best doctor's “I've never seen this before, but I can guess what might help”. You can have empiricism without science.

Re: Chiropractors are bullshit

#60

Post by iandanforth » Sat, May 15, 2021, 2:10 PM UTC

The author uses the fact that Chiropractic was started with inspiration from the spiritual world as evidence of quackery and says they are surprised that chiropractors are allowed to practice. And yet ... We allow many organisations which specifically say that taking directly to non-physical beings will solve your problems. So this bullshit is far less surprising than the direct and common bullshit we tolerate every day.