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Apple employees petition demanding investigation into ‘misogynistic’ new hire

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Re: Apple employees petition demanding investigation into ‘misogynistic’ new hire

#51

Post by rasputnik6502 »

ceph_ wrote: post #46
legostormtroopr wrote: post #12

This was buried in the article, but James Danmore is racist now. > notorious ex-Googler James Damore, who suggest this is because women and people of color lack the innate qualities needed to succeed in tech. It seems that people just keep tacking on “sins” to see what sticks to people’s reputations regardless of the facts. Was there anything in Danmores article that even mentioned people of color?

His doc repeatedly said programs that are aimed at a helping women and people of color should be ended. And that diversity of gender and race should not be a goal. I don't think it's a big leap.

Many years ago a big tech company opened a new office in my city and started recruiting developers at my university. They wanted to be fair and treat both sexes equally so they decided on male/female parity (at least 30% women). But on my year (computer science) there were just 3 gals vs 30 guys, but there were groups with even worse ratio. So the company hired all female students they could and then started looking outside. Even hired some girls from biology (qualifications weren't that important) because they had to fill in female positions, so then they could give offers to male programmers. Felt pretty bad, this was certainly one of such programs you mentioned

Re: Apple employees petition demanding investigation into ‘misogynistic’ new hire

#52

Post by SirSourdough »

SamReidHughes wrote: post #49
SirSourdough wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you implying that men in tech in the Bay Area don’t find their jobs exhausting? There are posts by men from the Bay Area talking about burn out on HN every day. Now imagine you are a woman in an industry dominated by men, a significant portion of whom make sly, lightly veiled sexist comments (like yours seems to be) all the time. Wouldn’t that make it even more exhausting than it is for the men?

Maybe they'd be less exhausted if they focused on doing their job instead of complaining about men. People with some level of capability aren't the ones worried about being considered weak or useless and whining in public about how they are exhausted as if twitter was some kind of personal pity party. But what do I know, I live in SoCal. Which, I've observed, has more high quality women per capita than the Bay Area.…

So much for lightly veiled...

I think this comment is a perfect example of why women feel the need to speak out against sexism. They wouldn’t need to “complain” if people like you would just listen.

Re: Apple employees petition demanding investigation into ‘misogynistic’ new hire

#53

Post by chubbyish »

zoeysaurusrex wrote: post #24
mgamache wrote: post #11

It's not like Apple is making money from misogynistic music or supports a regime that enforces female sterilization. As long as Apple employees to have a safe space from offensive ideas and people all is okay.

So you think women should feel okay working alongside someone who thinks they are soft and weak, cosseted and naive despite their claims of worldliness, and generally full of shit? It's not about safe spaces or offensive ideas. It's about enabling sexism and racism to freely propagate while telling minority groups that it isn't harmful despite past experience.

Explain how this is sexist?

Or did you just read the short quote.

Re: Apple employees petition demanding investigation into ‘misogynistic’ new hire

#54

Post by chubbyish »

MyHypatia wrote: post #5
sanity31415 wrote: post #3

> His hiring “calls into question parts of our system of inclusion at Apple, including hiring panels, background checks, and our process to ensure our existing culture of inclusion is strong enough to withstand individuals who don’t share our inclusive values,” they write. So they want to exclude someone for having different opinions to them, in the name of inclusivity? Clown world.

I think the clown world is hiring someone who wrote: “Most women in the Bay Area are soft and weak, cosseted and naive despite their claims of worldliness, and generally full of shit. They have their self-regarding entitlement feminism, and ceaselessly vaunt their independence, but the reality is, come the epidemic plague or foreign invasion, they’d become precisely the sort of useless baggage you’d trade for a box o…

You are hearing only what supports your narrative because you need to hate on something. Humans simply love to hate.

The context of the quote is comparing Bay Area women to the Eastern European woman that he is dating.

And now you bring the female healthcare workers into it too. Hey women - look what this guy is writing about you.

What you will find is that it is actually you, who is decreasing net happiness of everyone around you from your confused outrage.

The article author and the people who share the quote out of context, all think they are helping (at least I hope) but they are actually saddening the world and spreading a fiction that doesn’t exist.

Re: Apple employees petition demanding investigation into ‘misogynistic’ new hire

#55

Post by w0de0 »

SamReidHughes wrote: post #49
SirSourdough wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you implying that men in tech in the Bay Area don’t find their jobs exhausting? There are posts by men from the Bay Area talking about burn out on HN every day. Now imagine you are a woman in an industry dominated by men, a significant portion of whom make sly, lightly veiled sexist comments (like yours seems to be) all the time. Wouldn’t that make it even more exhausting than it is for the men?

Maybe they'd be less exhausted if they focused on doing their job instead of complaining about men. People with some level of capability aren't the ones worried about being considered weak or useless and whining in public about how they are exhausted as if twitter was some kind of personal pity party. But what do I know, I live in SoCal. Which, I've observed, has more high quality women per capita than the Bay Area.…

Maybe you'd be better at your job if you wasted less time complaining about women on Internet fora.

Re: Apple employees petition demanding investigation into ‘misogynistic’ new hire

#56

Post by chubbyish »

tomnipotent wrote: post #31
Udik wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is not whether it's allowed or not, it is. The question is whether it's stupid or not, and I think it is, terribly so.

So women should be forced to work under a known misogynist, their salary and promotions tied to a boss that thinks them inferior and has literally published a book saying so? Yeah, there are no examples of that going poorly.

> thinks them inferior

To who? Eastern European woman. How is this sexist?

> known misogynist

Men find women physically attractive.

I would be interested to know what films, books, comedians you actually find permissible for yourself to enjoy.

If you take offense to what is written here, I really don’t see how most of the media available today can be suitable. Do you ever ask yourself if you are being consistent in your standards?

Re: Apple employees petition demanding investigation into ‘misogynistic’ new hire

#57

Post by chubbyish »

zozbot234 wrote: post #16
sanity31415 wrote: post #3

> His hiring “calls into question parts of our system of inclusion at Apple, including hiring panels, background checks, and our process to ensure our existing culture of inclusion is strong enough to withstand individuals who don’t share our inclusive values,” they write. So they want to exclude someone for having different opinions to them, in the name of inclusivity? Clown world.

When the "different opinion" involves proclaiming that a whole class of your fellow workers are "soft, weak and full of $#!+" then yes, you should be resolutely excluded from positions of authority since you have willingly forfeited the kind of trust that's required for any such role. Let this guy stay in a pure engineering/IC role if he wants, but he should not be in a management position.

He is comparing to Eastern European women.

Re: Apple employees petition demanding investigation into ‘misogynistic’ new hire

#58

Post by chubbyish »

zoeysaurusrex wrote: post #17
sanity31415 wrote: post #3

> His hiring “calls into question parts of our system of inclusion at Apple, including hiring panels, background checks, and our process to ensure our existing culture of inclusion is strong enough to withstand individuals who don’t share our inclusive values,” they write. So they want to exclude someone for having different opinions to them, in the name of inclusivity? Clown world.

Who is "they"? Don't be shy. Saying things like "women soft and weak, cosseted and naive despite their claims of worldliness, and generally full of shit." is more than just a difference of opinion. You cannot hold that opinion and be a fair leader.

You are deliberately misquoting.

Re: Apple employees petition demanding investigation into ‘misogynistic’ new hire

#59

Post by chubbyish »

SirSourdough wrote: post #37
rasputnik6502 wrote: post #22

Something bad is happening to companies, they become full of shit because of nothing. Isn't there a difference between expressing unpopular opinions and actually abusing or attacking people? Or thoughtcrime is becoming punishable? Someone is working hard on adding fuel to misogyny

Since when can you not judge a person on what they write in a published book? This isn’t “crime”, nobody is claiming it’s illegal. But it’s still sexist and flat out wrong to essentially say that most women are worthless, and it’s perfectly reasonable not to want to work with or for someone who demonstrates such sexist thinking and poor judgement.

What percentage of Bay Area women comprise all women in the world? And what is your definition of most?

He is comparing Bay Area women to Eastern European women.

Re: Apple employees petition demanding investigation into ‘misogynistic’ new hire

#60

Post by rasputnik6502 »

SirSourdough wrote: post #50
rasputnik6502 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can judge as much as you want. But organizing a mob with pitchforks to attack the author and teach them a lesson is not exactly harmless. Or your 'judging' is more like 'lynching'

Saying that a person shouldn’t be hired into a prominent position where they will likely manage women on the basis that that person has said women are worthless is nothing like lynching.

Not exactly lynching, not exactly calling, not exactly women, not exactly worthless. Likely to be abusive or hostile towards women because he did what? Any cases from the past? Or is the book title 'Mein Kampf'?
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