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Just Use Email – How to Use Email for Everything

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Re: Just Use Email – How to Use Email for Everything

#51

Post by znpy »

paxys wrote: post #44
daveslash wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll give you an up-vote because I think a variety of different viewpoints is important, but I'm very much in the e-mail camp. My biggest reason is simply: it's the only ubiquitous, decentralized, open protocol that I can think of. I can run my own server if I want, an I can interact with anybody with an e-mail address . Sure, there was XMPP for IM, but that doesn't have wide adoption; same with other protocols.

Signal is an open protocol and supports E2E encrypted text, voice and video.

wasn't signal shutting down alternative clients or something?

Re: Just Use Email – How to Use Email for Everything

#52

Post by dqv »

peterpost2 wrote: post #11
daveslash wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll give you an up-vote because I think a variety of different viewpoints is important, but I'm very much in the e-mail camp. My biggest reason is simply: it's the only ubiquitous, decentralized, open protocol that I can think of. I can run my own server if I want, an I can interact with anybody with an e-mail address . Sure, there was XMPP for IM, but that doesn't have wide adoption; same with other protocols.

You really can't run your on email server nowadays though, you need to have been running one for several decades otherwise the email common email providers(gmail, outlook) will automatically just assume its spam. Also due to the way extensions added to the email protocol configuring and learning how to properly configure it so it gets accepted will be a dayjob.

The only “common” email provider that has given me problems is Zoho. They’re annoying and do not respond on their mailer daemon email or whatever. I tell people we can’t correspond if they use Zoho and no one has had a problem with that yet.

Re: Just Use Email – How to Use Email for Everything

#53

Post by neogodless »

dvt wrote: post #5

I don't think this kind of Luddism is useful. It's purported by the same kinds of people that, upon seeing a new SaaS, quickly retort: "couldn't you just do that with Google Docs/Word/pen and paper?" Not to mention that email absolutely sucks . The confusing threads, the forwarding, the constant CC'ing, someone making it or not making it into a list, the spam. It's absolute garbage. In fact, people have been seeking…

Mentioning Google Docs as a part of Luddism is making me feel old.

So is misreading SaaS as SAS and thinking of the old query language.

Re: Just Use Email – How to Use Email for Everything

#54

Post by sethammons »

ihattendorf wrote: post #15
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Worst of all, Gmail especially isn't great about tagging messages as spam My experience is the exact opposite of yours - I find Gmail's spam detection absolutely amazing. I get essentially zero spam in my inbox, and perhaps 4-6 false positives in the spam folder a month. >As a Gmail user, there is nothing you can do to verify that you're getting all of the legitimate mail traffic that is being sent to you. What oth…

> perhaps 4-6 false positives in the spam folder a month That's 4-6 valid messages a month the average user will never see.

Your mileage will vary I guess. It has been _years_ since I got a legit message caught in gmail spam; every few months I glance at it and go "yup, that's all spam." Proofpoint however, they capture a legit email every other month or so.

Re: Just Use Email – How to Use Email for Everything

#55

Post by dqv »

edmundsauto wrote: post #22
peterpost2 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You really can't run your on email server nowadays though, you need to have been running one for several decades otherwise the email common email providers(gmail, outlook) will automatically just assume its spam. Also due to the way extensions added to the email protocol configuring and learning how to properly configure it so it gets accepted will be a dayjob.

This isn’t universally true, although your broader point (it could change at any time!) is a risk. As a data point, I have run my own email servers for years. Both professionally (couple million transactional emails per year) and for my personal. If you follow best practices (which is a pain to setup!), deliver ability is generally on par with other providers, unless you got unlucky and got a bad IP.

Mailinabox is a great package that makes the best practices very easy. I always recommend it or similar packages.

Re: Just Use Email – How to Use Email for Everything

#56

Post by throwawayboise »

bluefirebrand wrote: post #23
paxys wrote: post #3

I'm on the exact opposite end of the spectrum. I haven't used email outside of work for many years now, and don't miss it one bit. And even at work most communication now happens on Slack. The digital world has evolved since 1997, and email simply hasn't kept up. I skimmed a couple articles on the blog and my biggest problem with it is that the author is making a social rather than technological argument (which are a…

I'm with you, I absolutely cannot stand using email unless I absolutely have to, which is mostly just at work. And it's a fine way for government or businesses to contact me, just like mail was. But just like mail letter writing declined after the invention of the telephone, e-mail has declined after the invention of IM

I remember using email in an IM-like fashion, having a real-time back and forth conversation. The only difference is that most email clients quote the entire conversation on every reply.

A lightweight client could have an IM-like interface that does not quote the original message on replies. Who cares if it's SMTP under the covers, the whole experience could feel quite IM-like and it would have all the other benefits of email (not being locked in to a specific provider being the main one).

Re: Just Use Email – How to Use Email for Everything

#57

Post by sneak »

williamtwild wrote: post #46
sneak wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The good ones are fairly technical, but there are services that make them easier. Sieve or procmail filters and clients like macOS Mail.app and mutt are good ones. My main email client is macOS Mail.app and it's pretty great when configured properly in conjunction with serverside preprocessing/filtering.

You have called people rubes and not provided any examples of this proper configuration. Dissapointing and trollish.

I didn't call anyone a rube.

Re: Just Use Email – How to Use Email for Everything

#58

Post by paxys »

throwawayboise wrote: post #56
bluefirebrand wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm with you, I absolutely cannot stand using email unless I absolutely have to, which is mostly just at work. And it's a fine way for government or businesses to contact me, just like mail was. But just like mail letter writing declined after the invention of the telephone, e-mail has declined after the invention of IM

I remember using email in an IM-like fashion, having a real-time back and forth conversation. The only difference is that most email clients quote the entire conversation on every reply. A lightweight client could have an IM-like interface that does not quote the original message on replies. Who cares if it's SMTP under the covers, the whole experience could feel quite IM-like and it would have all the other benefits…

The problem is that the moment you try and add even the most basic value-add features, other email clients can't understand you anymore. And this applies to fundamental things like identity verification, encryption and group chats.

Re: Just Use Email – How to Use Email for Everything

#59

Post by pseudalopex »

paxys wrote: post #44
daveslash wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll give you an up-vote because I think a variety of different viewpoints is important, but I'm very much in the e-mail camp. My biggest reason is simply: it's the only ubiquitous, decentralized, open protocol that I can think of. I can run my own server if I want, an I can interact with anybody with an e-mail address . Sure, there was XMPP for IM, but that doesn't have wide adoption; same with other protocols.

Signal is an open protocol and supports E2E encrypted text, voice and video.

There were 2 important adjectives before open.

Re: Just Use Email – How to Use Email for Everything

#60

Post by addicted »

babypuncher wrote: post #34
daveslash wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll give you an up-vote because I think a variety of different viewpoints is important, but I'm very much in the e-mail camp. My biggest reason is simply: it's the only ubiquitous, decentralized, open protocol that I can think of. I can run my own server if I want, an I can interact with anybody with an e-mail address . Sure, there was XMPP for IM, but that doesn't have wide adoption; same with other protocols.

It's fine to want all your communication on an open protocol, but email is just plain clunky and not good at all for the types of online communication people have grown accustomed to. It literally is just an electronic equivalent of sending a letter, and inherits most of the limitations that implies. If any of us are ever going to convince friends and family to leave proprietary platforms like Messenger and Discord,…

Both Google and MS created excellent IM systems based on email.

It can be done. It isn’t because there is no billion dollar exit possible on an email based system.

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