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The global chip shortage is starting to have consequences

cnbc.com

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Re: The global chip shortage is starting to have consequences

#51

Post by swiley »

ArkanExplorer wrote: post #24

Ban cryptocurrency exchanges and some of the wafer capacity currently being dedicated to mining will return to regular use (or we can just wait for the ETH2 merge, then ban the purchase of PoW cyrpto). Secondly get workers back to work by ending COVID-era unemployment payments and workplace restrictions.

China banned it and something like 60% of the mining happens there. The whole thing was built to get around bans.

Also crypto was thing that just pushed us over the edge, before that Apple was buying out (preventing any chips from being manufactured at) entire node sizes, there were serious issues with semiconductor manufacturing already.

Re: The global chip shortage is starting to have consequences

#52

Post by makapuf »

simias wrote: post #8
ferros wrote: post #3

> Production of low-margin processors, such as those used to weigh clothes in a washing machine or toast bread in a smart toaster, has also been hit. While most retailers are still able to get their hands on these products at the moment, they may face issues in the months ahead. I understand why the new advanced chips could face shortages, but why are there shortages for these basic chips. Can’t they be made anywhere…

I don't know but maybe one of the factors is that given how cheap microntrollers have become it's not uncommon to use an "overpowered" integrated chip just for ease of development. Suppose that you have to drive some LEDs on a washing machine, do you bother developing some optimized bespoke circuitry with discrete components or do you just slap a ~2$ 100+MHz 32bit Cortex controller that will let you implement all the…

You can also put a 16MHz 8bit which can cost you a few dozens of cents max (Outside of shortage)

Re: The global chip shortage is starting to have consequences

#53

Post by f6v »

ta988 wrote: post #23
devney wrote: post #11

For years I've been asking: Why does my toothbrush have to connect to bluetooth? Why does my refrigerator twitter? These were always useless mis-features and we can hope some of them can get pared down now with the shortage. Bring back old style dumb appliances!

One can also do the choice to not buy any of these. I have no trouble finding non IoT toothbrushes, fridges and so on.

Finding a dumb TV is a lot harder.

Re: The global chip shortage is starting to have consequences

#54

Post by ajross »

jfoster wrote: post #4

Why is there a shortage rather than a price hike, similar to what would happen with fuel? Long term contracts?

There is a price hike. But paying 2x more for silicon inside e.g. a car that retails for $40k isn't going to be felt by the consumer as a change to the demand curve, it's going to look like "car shortage". So the car manufacturers have to explain that it's due to silicon manufacturing capacity, so now it's a "chip shortage".

Re: The global chip shortage is starting to have consequences

#55

Post by readflaggedcomm »

mhh__ wrote: post #17
devney wrote: post #11

For years I've been asking: Why does my toothbrush have to connect to bluetooth? Why does my refrigerator twitter? These were always useless mis-features and we can hope some of them can get pared down now with the shortage. Bring back old style dumb appliances!

Connected devices are a good thing - i.e. I should be able to make the washing machine scriptable from my computer, but I bet these solutions are always crap because they are implemented in a hurry by engineers who don't understand either the hardware or software well enough to make it work, so you end up with quasi-useless boss-pleasers like we have now.

Without the hardware to script moving wet clothes to a dryer, and possibly folding and sorting dry clothes, is there a point, other than to set an alarm to prevent a moldy forgotten wet load?

Re: The global chip shortage is starting to have consequences

#56

Post by mhh__ »

slver wrote: post #44
mhh__ wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? I want to make the washing machine starting drying after a specific amount of time after the wash stage has finished. And guess what mr programmer, they didn't bother letting me do that with the front panel...

Most (all?) washing machines have a delayed start. Why would you want your clothes to sit wet, collecting mold, before the drying begins? See, part of being a good programmer is figuring out a solution using the tools you have. Which includes figuring out how existing machines address your issues without requesting they come with a fully programmable API and wi-fi, just so you can delay the drying cycle.

I get the best drying if the machine washes, drains for a bit, then starts drying after that.

If I were to do this it would take 4 trips to the washing machine because they didn't think to make it tick over from even washing to drying.

Re: The global chip shortage is starting to have consequences

#57

Post by formerly_proven »

jpm_sd wrote: post #12
jamiek88 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is there is a substrate shortage as well as a foundry slot shortage.

This is correct. The industry is currently constrained on everything from water to wafers, in addition to fab time slots. Everyone is panic buying too, so shortages are getting amplified.

... and while there is lots of "real" demand we also get the cryptocrazies exerting additional pressure not just on the finest and best silicon available, but now even on HDD/SSDs. Prices have already risen 50+ % in the last few weeks.

F--- t---- m-----.

Re: The global chip shortage is starting to have consequences

#58

Post by smiley1437 »

Interestingly, there is an embedded video in that article that explains the issue specific to the automotive shortage - it's because the automotive industry cancelled a lot of chip orders in anticipation of low vehicle demand and that caused chip makers to reduce their production for the kinds of chips that go into cars, and now it takes time to ramp back up:

https://www.cnbc.com/video/2021/03/02/how-the-global-compute...

It's at the 4m15s part of the video

I think a facepalm is in order.

Re: The global chip shortage is starting to have consequences

#59

Post by reportingsjr »

AlexC04 wrote: post #20
simias wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know but maybe one of the factors is that given how cheap microntrollers have become it's not uncommon to use an "overpowered" integrated chip just for ease of development. Suppose that you have to drive some LEDs on a washing machine, do you bother developing some optimized bespoke circuitry with discrete components or do you just slap a ~2$ 100+MHz 32bit Cortex controller that will let you implement all the…

It makes me wonder if it would be possible to build a chip-manufacturing plant for any reasonable amount of money to produce these chips that don't need to be 7nm GPU powerhouses, but like the old clunker chips that can't get attention from the big guys. Almost like starting a "generics" business in pharma medication but for older chipsets. I'm sure there's a great trade to be had in producing the lower end stuff.

Most of the chips in these shortages are being produced on either older process nodes, or on slightly specialized nodes. The typical micro that's been hit by this is using anywhere from a 28nm to 180nm node.

The trouble is, this is a temporary shortage, so it makes no sense to spend serious cash (you're talking hundreds of millions) to make a new fab when the demand won't be there in a year or two.

Re: The global chip shortage is starting to have consequences

#60

Post by michaelmcdonald »

f6v wrote: post #48

There's useful technology, like computer controlling your engine to make it more fuel-efficient or whatever. And then there're "smart appliances", like a fridge with a screen. Do we really need it? The companies try to sell us more useless stuff, that's what it is.

I think it's rather short-sighted to refer to one application of technology as useful and another as not needed. Is the computer controlling the engine to be more fuel-efficient needed? No. Is the car even needed? No. But we have found a use for that technology that improves our daily lives.

Perhaps for you a fridge with a screen is not useful; however for others it may be.

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