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Astronauts with disabilities can apply to Europe's space agency for first time

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Re: Astronauts with disabilities can apply to Europe's space agency for first time

#51

Post by ceejayoz »

mzkply wrote: post #49
ceejayoz wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you under the impression people without legs just sit around hoping someone will give them a piggyback ride? Oscar Pistorius qualified for the 2012 Summer Olympics without any.

I'm frankly not sure how this is relevant to a survival scenario where people may or may not be injured. Anyway, the entire ISS is built around astronauts using their feet as anchors, allowing them to use their hands for work. Without legs, you wouldn't be able to do maintain your position while working in 0g, hence the challenges of spacewalking. There's plenty of videos where astros show how the top of their feet b…

Again, look to Oscar Pistorius for a concrete example. The man has the same ability to move around as someone with legs, they're just made of carbon fiber. Many prosthetics have sophisticated articulation. We're a long way past the days of peg legs.

I fully expect an organization capable of creating the ISS to be capable of figuring out a way for prosthetics to be usable onboard. Put a bit of velcro on one of these, perhaps: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2z8CE2vomY

Re: Astronauts with disabilities can apply to Europe's space agency for first time

#52

Post by [deleted] »

_u1dn wrote: post #44

Space exploration seems difficult and delayed enough without this virtue signaling. Supporting disabilities would add a number of new challenges on top of the existing ones, and with marginal practical benefit (increasing the pool of potential astronauts by the small minority that have disabilities). Being an astronaut is a ridiculously selective process, it’s not like disabled people are missing out on something her…

[deleted]

Re: Astronauts with disabilities can apply to Europe's space agency for first time

#53

Post by _u1dn »

anthony_romeo wrote: post #50
_u1dn wrote: post #44

Space exploration seems difficult and delayed enough without this virtue signaling. Supporting disabilities would add a number of new challenges on top of the existing ones, and with marginal practical benefit (increasing the pool of potential astronauts by the small minority that have disabilities). Being an astronaut is a ridiculously selective process, it’s not like disabled people are missing out on something her…

This is a bad take and arbitrarily discriminatory, and I don't like this sort of reactionary anti-virtue signalling I've been seeing a lot on HN recently. You did not establish that the "new challenges" are especially difficult to overcome, nor that they're not worth undertaking. There can be a lot to learn through this process, and that by itself is valuable. YOU seem to believe that there is only marginal practical…

I didn’t say that increasing the pool was a bad idea. In fact, I said it’s a benefit, albeit a marginal one because it’s a relatively small % of people we’re talking about here. The problem is that it comes at a cost. Furthermore, while we’re on the subject of pool increase, it’s also vastly lowering the selection pool if they favor people from this small group.

There may be aspects of the selection process that are arbitrary, but not having physical disabilities isn’t one of them. As the article discusses, this would involve changing a number of aspects about the program to accommodate this one specific group. It’s not just a matter of “reconsidering and expanding” the restrictions, it’s clearly a major undertaking.

Re: Astronauts with disabilities can apply to Europe's space agency for first time

#54

Post by FrojoS »

ceejayoz wrote: post #45
black6 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Leaving the spacecraft on the ground due to an emergency might require the escapee to be fully ambulatory, though.

You can lack legs and be fully ambulatory. (And murdery, but that's beside the point here.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oscar_Pistorius

Running on the track is not the same as climbing out of a cramped pressure vessel.

Re: Astronauts with disabilities can apply to Europe's space agency for first time

#55

Post by gostsamo »

brotherofsteel wrote: post #48
gostsamo wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm downvoting because you imply that having body abnormalities makes someone lower quality person. A disability should not be taken into account if it is not significant for the job (a rather personal bias).

That's not what I meant. I meant the best people _for the job_. I agree that candidates shouldn't be excluded because of disabilities that are irrelevant to the job of being an astronaut, but that's not why they're doing this. As the ESA spokesperson says, "it's in the principle of diversity and inclusiveness".

You understand diversity and inclusiveness like a sudoku puzzle where you have artificial constraints that must be satisfied in order to complete the task. On the other side, diversity and inclusiveness might be the removal of artificial constraints that limit the choices that one can make.

Re: Astronauts with disabilities can apply to Europe's space agency for first time

#56

Post by ceejayoz »

FrojoS wrote: post #54
ceejayoz wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can lack legs and be fully ambulatory. (And murdery, but that's beside the point here.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oscar_Pistorius

Running on the track is not the same as climbing out of a cramped pressure vessel.

Sure, and if NASA can't find a way for an amputee to safely do that, they'll disqualify them for flight. Some people with fully functional legs fail the egress tests, too.

They should be given a chance to prove the ability, rather than being dismissed out of hand.

Re: Astronauts with disabilities can apply to Europe's space agency for first time

#57

Post by [deleted] »

_u1dn wrote: post #53
anthony_romeo wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a bad take and arbitrarily discriminatory, and I don't like this sort of reactionary anti-virtue signalling I've been seeing a lot on HN recently. You did not establish that the "new challenges" are especially difficult to overcome, nor that they're not worth undertaking. There can be a lot to learn through this process, and that by itself is valuable. YOU seem to believe that there is only marginal practical…

I didn’t say that increasing the pool was a bad idea. In fact, I said it’s a benefit, albeit a marginal one because it’s a relatively small % of people we’re talking about here. The problem is that it comes at a cost. Furthermore, while we’re on the subject of pool increase, it’s also vastly lowering the selection pool if they favor people from this small group. There may be aspects of the selection process that are…

[deleted]

Re: Astronauts with disabilities can apply to Europe's space agency for first time

#58

Post by anthony_romeo »

_u1dn wrote: post #53
anthony_romeo wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a bad take and arbitrarily discriminatory, and I don't like this sort of reactionary anti-virtue signalling I've been seeing a lot on HN recently. You did not establish that the "new challenges" are especially difficult to overcome, nor that they're not worth undertaking. There can be a lot to learn through this process, and that by itself is valuable. YOU seem to believe that there is only marginal practical…

I didn’t say that increasing the pool was a bad idea. In fact, I said it’s a benefit, albeit a marginal one because it’s a relatively small % of people we’re talking about here. The problem is that it comes at a cost. Furthermore, while we’re on the subject of pool increase, it’s also vastly lowering the selection pool if they favor people from this small group. There may be aspects of the selection process that are…

You can choose to believe that if you want. I don't see any meat to your argument beyond mere hunchery. For example, you merely identify that a "cost" exists, but you didn't bother to claim it was a meaningful cost in the context of the broader space program.

Re: Astronauts with disabilities can apply to Europe's space agency for first time

#59

Post by missedthecue »

gostsamo wrote: post #13
brotherofsteel wrote: post #8

Given how few people we can afford to send into space, is it too much to ask that we send the best people we have? Leave the identity politics back on Earth.

I'm downvoting because you imply that having body abnormalities makes someone lower quality person. A disability should not be taken into account if it is not significant for the job (a rather personal bias).

Why is that worth a downvote? You disagree with his argument, but his comment is contributing to the discussion.

Re: Astronauts with disabilities can apply to Europe's space agency for first time

#60

Post by kingsuper20 »

_Microft wrote: post #20
kingsuper20 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could argue that an optimum space-human has amputated legs.

Astronauts hook their feet under handles to stay in place while doing things on the I.S.S. They do this so extensively that they develop callus on top of their feet and loose it on their heels. Once back on Earth walking without hardened skin on the heels is said to be painful until they have re-developed it. Here is an account of astronaut Scott Kelly: https://www.businessinsider.com/scott-kelly-weirdest-thing-y...

That's interesting but doesn't sound like much of a prosthetic to add to the proposed legless astronaut corps(tm).

Somebody must have studied this. Effect of G-forces on amputees, perhaps there's less in the way of nutrition and oxygen needs.

For that matter, I wonder what tests have been done to find natural differences in resource depletion depending on the individual, that sounds like an obvious selection point for a Mars mission or any other long-term isolation.

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