Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Havana syndrome: NSA officer’s case hints at microwave attacks since 90s

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 222 posts

Re: Havana syndrome: NSA officer’s case hints at microwave attacks since 90s

#51

Post by cardanome »

fighterpilot wrote: post #35
cardanome wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That article doesn't disprove a microwave attack at all, it just says there is no known public evidence that matches up with what is described. I can not disprove that there is a magic man in the sky. Or a teapot revolving around the sun. [1] The burden of proof is on the person making the claim not the other way round. Yes, lack of evidence is enough to reject it. Not to mention that the claim goes against establi…

> lack of evidence is enough to reject it This is a pseudo-skeptical[1] finger in the ear reaction. There's nothing in your posts here that tells me that you've reviewed the evidence that's been put forth[2] and rejected it, and it seems Snopes hasn't either. All I see is a total a priori dismissal which is not good practice for either a skeptic or a scientist. Here's what would've told me that this is a good faith e…

> There's nothing in your posts here that tells me that you've reviewed the evidence that's been put forth[2] and rejected it, and it seems Snopes hasn't either.

I have debated that topic multiple times during different years. Yes, I am not fully up to date with the newest version

I you were a police man and some guy came up and claimed to be a victim of a crime and you find out the details don't add up, well that happens. Now if he came back next year with a slightly different story about the same crime, yeah that is fishy. If he constantly keeps changing his implausible story you would at some tell him to get lost for wasting police time.

Re: Havana syndrome: NSA officer’s case hints at microwave attacks since 90s

#52

Post by vermilingua »

bmicraft wrote: post #44
saalweachter wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Active Denial System, listed on your link, causes pain by heating water in the skin. What is the proposed system for getting microwaves past the skin into the brain without creating the same effect as the ADS?

Using longer wavelengths should do exactly that.

But do longer wavelengths act on water in the same way as microwave?

Re: Havana syndrome: NSA officer’s case hints at microwave attacks since 90s

#53

Post by fighterpilot »

cardanome wrote: post #51
fighterpilot wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> lack of evidence is enough to reject it This is a pseudo-skeptical[1] finger in the ear reaction. There's nothing in your posts here that tells me that you've reviewed the evidence that's been put forth[2] and rejected it, and it seems Snopes hasn't either. All I see is a total a priori dismissal which is not good practice for either a skeptic or a scientist. Here's what would've told me that this is a good faith e…

> There's nothing in your posts here that tells me that you've reviewed the evidence that's been put forth[2] and rejected it, and it seems Snopes hasn't either. I have debated that topic multiple times during different years. Yes, I am not fully up to date with the newest version I you were a police man and some guy came up and claimed to be a victim of a crime and you find out the details don't add up, well that ha…

> if he came back next year with a slightly different story

So the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine keeps changing their story? Do you have evidence for this?

Re: Havana syndrome: NSA officer’s case hints at microwave attacks since 90s

#54

Post by GVIrish »

cheaprentalyeti wrote: post #10
GVIrish wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They could try that, but it seems like personnel are being attacked outside of embassies. They'd need to equip everyone's domicile with detectors as well. That said, State Dept and the intelligence community should've been all over this. When this happened in Cuba, everyone should've been on high alert. When it happened again after, people should've snapped into action. It's possible that the powers that be didn't ta…

Uh, the administration Biden belonged to more or less ignored worse stuff than this that enabled attacks like this. Take, for example, the OPM "hack." Read this: https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/06/encry... IF you're wondering how whoever was running attacks like this would get the data to follow people home with attacks like this, in places where there aren't any sensors, look at these hearings fr…

> Uh, the administration Biden belonged to more or less ignored worse stuff than this that enabled attacks like this. Take, for example, the OPM "hack."

I worked at State Department during the Obama era and into the Trump era. I am well aware that the Obama administration did not impose adequate consequences for prior acts of espionage and aggression such as the Cozy Bear hack on State Dept or Mikhail Lesin getting bludgeoned to death in DC. There also wasn't adequate pushback against propaganda efforts.

The OPM hack is widely attributed to China and is probably the most devastating breach in recent memory. Who knows what the real world consequences of that have been thus far.

Either way ny point is that right now, today, there is no excuse not to act. Unless maybe they still haven't figured out what is happening and who is responsible.

Re: Havana syndrome: NSA officer’s case hints at microwave attacks since 90s

#55

Post by [deleted] »

Google234 wrote: post #2

Why don’t they install detectors inside all the embassies at risk to prove or disprove this? Why didn’t they do this earlier? I’m pretty sure there are many places that could be contracted to make a detector in a few weeks - this isn’t new technology. This seems really easy to test... so why are we still speculating.

[deleted]

Re: Havana syndrome: NSA officer’s case hints at microwave attacks since 90s

#56

Post by pessimizer »

fighterpilot wrote: post #35
cardanome wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That article doesn't disprove a microwave attack at all, it just says there is no known public evidence that matches up with what is described. I can not disprove that there is a magic man in the sky. Or a teapot revolving around the sun. [1] The burden of proof is on the person making the claim not the other way round. Yes, lack of evidence is enough to reject it. Not to mention that the claim goes against establi…

> lack of evidence is enough to reject it This is a pseudo-skeptical[1] finger in the ear reaction. There's nothing in your posts here that tells me that you've reviewed the evidence that's been put forth[2] and rejected it, and it seems Snopes hasn't either. All I see is a total a priori dismissal which is not good practice for either a skeptic or a scientist. Here's what would've told me that this is a good faith e…

This is just ad hominem.

Re: Havana syndrome: NSA officer’s case hints at microwave attacks since 90s

#57

Post by pklee »

bArray wrote: post #28

Are microwave attacks something that is proven to exist? Can we replicate the effects on mice from some distance? Given the fact they pass through walls, this kind of bounds the frequency range the attacks could exist in... I would expect to see radio interference on nearby devices, etc (even if operating on a different frequency). I wouldn't be entirely surprised if these could be self-manifesting symptoms from peop…

Interestingly I was listening to this podcast yesterday - https://gimletmedia.com/shows/science-vs/76hgkmv/havana-synd... Analysis all the possibilities through interview with experts. Hope you find it interesting

Re: Havana syndrome: NSA officer’s case hints at microwave attacks since 90s

#58

Post by im3w1l »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #29
bArray wrote: post #28

Are microwave attacks something that is proven to exist? Can we replicate the effects on mice from some distance? Given the fact they pass through walls, this kind of bounds the frequency range the attacks could exist in... I would expect to see radio interference on nearby devices, etc (even if operating on a different frequency). I wouldn't be entirely surprised if these could be self-manifesting symptoms from peop…

Yes, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directed-energy_weapon 2.4 GHz is used to heat your food in the microwave. Pulses that increase the fluence by an order of magnitude or more could probably boil water for a microsecond inside the brain and cause some strange reactions. What is unproven though, is how one would ever shrink the size of an electronic weapon like this.

You don't need to shrink it. Just go to the 5g antennas in the vicinity and press the big red "activate death ray" button.

Re: Havana syndrome: NSA officer’s case hints at microwave attacks since 90s

#59

Post by infoseek12 »

realce wrote: post #22
tqkxzugoaupvwqr wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you please explain in more detail why it makes sense to attack low-level staff? I can’t follow. Is it because low-level staff rotates more often and is only a short time in the country so effects won’t be connected to their stay in Kuba?

Low level staff today is the high level staff of 15 years from now, so you just make them dumb now.

Directly attacking the health of US personal would be a hugely provocative act. I’m not saying the Russians wouldn’t do it. There are reports that they paid out bounties in Afghanistan to attack US troops. But launching a campaign to enfeeble the intellect of future high level state department officials in this manner doesn’t make much sense. If you tried this kind of attack on a large scale and targeted a significant number of personnel, you would surely get caught which would lead to severe consequences. If you did it on a small scale that you might get away with, it would still be a risky and expensive undertaking and you’d only end up hurting a small fraction of one percent of possible future leaders. The cost benefit analysis doesn’t make sense to me.

We obviously don’t have enough information to really know what’s going on here but I do thinking some possibilities that don’t make very much sense can be excluded.

Re: Havana syndrome: NSA officer’s case hints at microwave attacks since 90s

#60

Post by jeltz »

nabla9 wrote: post #49
saalweachter wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Active Denial System, listed on your link, causes pain by heating water in the skin. What is the proposed system for getting microwaves past the skin into the brain without creating the same effect as the ADS?

Using the same frequency range as your home microwave does.

Which would be very painful when it heats the skin.
Post reply on HN