How the N-Word Became Unsayable • Hacker News Board

Re: How the N-Word Became Unsayable

#51

Post by FreshFries » Sat, May 01, 2021, 11:11 AM UTC

kenneth wrote: post #34

Freak_NL wrote: post #7

In the Netherlands in the past two decades the word 'neger' (which corresponds roughly, but not exactly, to the American use of 'negro') has become a taboo word too, although it was already something you wouldn't use on its own for most of the twentieth century. The popular sweet known as chocolate-coated marshmallow treats was called 'negerzoen' in Dutch (negro's kiss) in the recent past, and it was boldly emblazone…

Similarly, growing up in Switzerland that chocolate-marshmallow treat was called "tête de nègre" (nergo's head). Today, that's become taboo and they're now called "tête choco"

That is, in the French speaking part.

In the German speaking part of Switzerland they where called "mohrenkopf". There is a raging debate if the Mohren part stems from Mohren, the dark-skinned people, OR the old German word Môre, which means wild pig.

But since it's en vogue to be woke, large retails are super quick to either change the name (Schokokuss, or chocolate kiss), or get rid of the product altogether.

Re: How the N-Word Became Unsayable

#52

Post by EForEndeavour » Sat, May 01, 2021, 11:35 AM UTC

the-dude wrote: post #28

PaulRobinson wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also possible those people you've discussed it with are done with explaining this and don't want to have the conversation with you. Even if they are completely fine with it, you can't generalise - the fact people around you don't seem to care does not mean it is a word that does not carry offence to some, or even the majority. All swear words and insults are "just words", but their power to offend comes from con…

> but don't assume your data means you have discovered a universal truth. I haven't claimed anything like that in the slightest.

What did you mean to imply by your finding that "none of the negers had any objections to word neger in itself?"

Re: How the N-Word Became Unsayable

#53

Post by hirundo » Sat, May 01, 2021, 1:35 PM UTC

I wish the problem was isolated to just a few words that I could learn and avoid. But not so much.

I couple of years ago I went to a small hardware store to buy a shovel. I couldn't find what I needed so asked the clerk, who looked at me strangely and got prickly and hostile, like I was weirdo asking for something weird. They didn't have what I wanted and I left.

About a week later it dawned on me. The clerk was a black man, the only one in the village. I had asked for spade, the kind of shovel with a pointy end for breaking ground. Apparently he had taken it as a slur, and that I had been playing some kind of game with him.

Sorry about that. I suppose I should have asked for a shovel with a pointy end.

Re: How the N-Word Became Unsayable

#54

Post by dekhn » Sat, May 01, 2021, 2:21 PM UTC

hirundo wrote: post #53

I wish the problem was isolated to just a few words that I could learn and avoid. But not so much. I couple of years ago I went to a small hardware store to buy a shovel. I couldn't find what I needed so asked the clerk, who looked at me strangely and got prickly and hostile, like I was weirdo asking for something weird. They didn't have what I wanted and I left. About a week later it dawned on me. The clerk was a bl…

I've heard people say this ("spade is a bad word") but I think it's entirely regional.

Re: How the N-Word Became Unsayable

#55

Post by wankeler » Sat, May 01, 2021, 2:29 PM UTC

stavros wrote: post #50

wankeler wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still in current usage and almost entirely disconnected from historical context. And while we are being so critical of evil Brits I’m sure the phrase has never been uttered by native Dubliners giving their own view of the largely rural regions of their own country? Edit: BTW are you actually suggesting the Irish of the time were a race apart from other indigenous people of the British Isles?

> Edit: BTW are you actually suggesting the Irish of the time were a race apart from other indigenous people of the British Isles? Where did you get that from?

Well if the Brits are making racist comments about the Irish it rather suggests they are a different race or prone to putting themselves down. Ah, hold on a moment …

Re: How the N-Word Became Unsayable

#56

Post by extra88 » Sat, May 01, 2021, 2:41 PM UTC

stavros wrote: post #50

wankeler wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still in current usage and almost entirely disconnected from historical context. And while we are being so critical of evil Brits I’m sure the phrase has never been uttered by native Dubliners giving their own view of the largely rural regions of their own country? Edit: BTW are you actually suggesting the Irish of the time were a race apart from other indigenous people of the British Isles?

> Edit: BTW are you actually suggesting the Irish of the time were a race apart from other indigenous people of the British Isles? Where did you get that from?

randompwd described "beyond the pale" as a racist slur and an example of anti-Irish racism. Sounds like they're calling Irish people a race to me.

Or they're confused and think "racist" is synonymous with "bigot." It's not, it's bigotry against people of a certain race (or not of a certain race). I've seen a couple of instances of people using "racist" when race wasn't a factor; they meant "bigot" or "prejudiced" and I assumed they didn't have a broad vocabulary that included those more accurate words.

Re: How the N-Word Became Unsayable

#57

Post by mcphage » Sat, May 01, 2021, 3:12 PM UTC

mgerullis wrote: post #15

_hao wrote: post #2

The N-Word: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqwj--wGEgY

When I was 16. I lived in the US for an exchange year and one of the cultural differences was how people dealt with profanity. I was baffled at how people tried to avoid bad words, yet still clearly invoking that word in my head. A few examples include: friggin, what the fudge/heck, gosh, darn it... Whereas I back in Germany it would be socially accepted to say these things as they are.

> I was baffled at how people tried to avoid bad words, yet still clearly invoking that word in my head.

Because it’s the word itself which is the problem. If you substitute a different word, then you’re saying a different word.

> Whereas I back in Germany it would be socially accepted to say these things as they are.

German doesn’t have euphemisms?

Re: How the N-Word Became Unsayable

#58

Post by bbclive » Sat, May 01, 2021, 4:19 PM UTC

extra88 wrote: post #56

stavros wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Edit: BTW are you actually suggesting the Irish of the time were a race apart from other indigenous people of the British Isles? Where did you get that from?

randompwd described "beyond the pale" as a racist slur and an example of anti-Irish racism. Sounds like they're calling Irish people a race to me. Or they're confused and think "racist" is synonymous with "bigot." It's not, it's bigotry against people of a certain race (or not of a certain race). I've seen a couple of instances of people using "racist" when race wasn't a factor; they meant "bigot" or "prejudiced" and…

Irish are a race. Now stop trolling and go watch some baseball or whatever it is Americans do on the weekend.

Re: How the N-Word Became Unsayable

#59

Post by mgerullis » Sat, May 01, 2021, 6:08 PM UTC

mcphage wrote: post #57

mgerullis wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was 16. I lived in the US for an exchange year and one of the cultural differences was how people dealt with profanity. I was baffled at how people tried to avoid bad words, yet still clearly invoking that word in my head. A few examples include: friggin, what the fudge/heck, gosh, darn it... Whereas I back in Germany it would be socially accepted to say these things as they are.

> I was baffled at how people tried to avoid bad words, yet still clearly invoking that word in my head. Because it’s the word itself which is the problem. If you substitute a different word, then you’re saying a different word. > Whereas I back in Germany it would be socially accepted to say these things as they are. German doesn’t have euphemisms?

> Because it’s the word itself which is the problem. If you substitute a different word, then you’re saying a different word.

You are right but that’s exactly the point the video is making. By trying to avoid saying the bad thing you still invoke the bad thing.

> German doesn’t have euphemisms?

Maybe but generally it’s not common.

Re: How the N-Word Became Unsayable

#60

Post by LootCrateDev » Sat, May 01, 2021, 7:32 PM UTC

mgerullis wrote: post #20

rainworld wrote: post #18

[flagged]

You forgot to mention that the vast majority of mass shooters are white.

If we are talking absolute numbers instead of based on racial distributions, then I' like to talk about two absolute numbers:

- The amount of black men raping white women

- The amount of white men raping black women

Since we're allowed to talk absolute numbers and race without any race qualifiers at all.