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Apple reveals more about AirTag stalking protections

fastcompany.com

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Re: Apple reveals more about AirTag stalking protections

#51

Post by Nasrudith »

nixpulvis wrote: post #36

Here's a crazy hypothetical for some mulling... Let's say an abuser does use this, and goes on to track someone and then kills them (or commits some other very serious crime). The cops get involved, they start looking into it and discover (through a lapse in other privacy elements of this technology) that a third-party's iPhone was the one that gave away the location. What are the third parties' legal defenses from t…

They don't need one. An accomplice is a person who knowingly, voluntarily, or intentionally gives assistance to another in (or in some cases fails to prevent another from) the commission of a crime.

The judge is going to be very annoyed at the incompetent prosecutor for wasting his time improperly trying to try anybody and anything connected to the actual actor as an accomplice.

Re: Apple reveals more about AirTag stalking protections

#52

Post by watwut »

drdaeman wrote: post #46
djrogers wrote: post #35

There are a lot of comments here about how useless these protections are, because A or B already exist, or C works better for stalking. I think most of those comments are missing the real point here. If an Apple product were ever used to stalk - or God forbid, harm - an individual, it would be a big national story. If a Tile or a Samsung tag (or an amazon gps tracker made for stalking) were used in the same way, it w…

Would it really help, though? A stalker, not stupid and well-aware about the protection, visits iFixit for a picture of internals, takes a drill, and physically obliterates the buzzer, right through the case. Epoxy or superglue for protection from the elements. So they plant an Airtag, it gets found by accident, shit hits the fan, Apple's name goes in the news, journalists start journalist things, people don't are ou…

The assumption that all stalkers are smart and informed and skilled is not accurate.

Plenty of them are in fact stupid, followed some advice from discussion forum without really understanding what they are doing and that is that.

Re: Apple reveals more about AirTag stalking protections

#53

Post by Nasrudith »

Fauntleroy wrote: post #5
Invictus0 wrote: post #2

Are these domestic abuse activists aware that GPS tracking devices already exist and have existed for a long time? See here for an example [0]. [0]: https://www.amazon.com/Real-time-Tracker-Worldwide-Coverage-...

Murderers could also kill someone by strangling them any old time, but guns make it a lot easier. Sometimes simply improving the user experience of a heinous act is enough.

Personally I am old fashioned and blame the murderer. I must not be involved with communists or ambulance chasers enough to have been imbued with values like "The person with money is always the most at fault."

Re: Apple reveals more about AirTag stalking protections

#54

Post by ziml77 »

w0mbat wrote: post #18

All these stalking counter-measures make it useless if your device is stolen rather than mislaid. If my bag is stolen I want it to contain a hard to find device, not one that gives away its position (by warning the thief). I also want an easy mechanism to give the police temporary access to track it, til they catch the thief and get my stuff back.

Are the advertising it as a way to find stolen items? I've only ever thought of products like this as a way to find something I've misplaced.

Given that they talked about people scanning found AirTags and that they have those fancy looking holders for them, I can't imagine they expect the tags to be hidden. And if that's the case then a thief is going to know to take the AirTag off right away.

Re: Apple reveals more about AirTag stalking protections

#56

Post by m463 »

djrogers wrote: post #35

There are a lot of comments here about how useless these protections are, because A or B already exist, or C works better for stalking. I think most of those comments are missing the real point here. If an Apple product were ever used to stalk - or God forbid, harm - an individual, it would be a big national story. If a Tile or a Samsung tag (or an amazon gps tracker made for stalking) were used in the same way, it w…

Especially because apple has a lot riding on their use of crowdsourcing even though they have a privacy stance.

Personally I think privacy and crowdsourcing cannot go together, no matter how much algebra and privacy boilerplate is thrown in.

Re: Apple reveals more about AirTag stalking protections

#57

Post by nemothekid »

w0mbat wrote: post #47
vineyardmike wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know where you are, but in the US, if I gave the police a literal GPS coordinate of a stolen good, I still wouldnt expect them to actually go there and find it unless it’s of exceptionally high value (car, etc).

If there was an easy mechanism to temporarily hand over tracking of stolen tags/iPhones/iPads to police, with the nice ultra wideband tracking that gives an arrow and direction, police would go and get a lot of stuff back. The police love low-hanging fruit and easy arrests.

You can already do this today with iPhones and iPads and the police won’t do anything

Re: Apple reveals more about AirTag stalking protections

#58

Post by gnicholas »

> If you are an iPhone user, for instance, and someone has placed an AirTag on your person, your phone will eventually alert you that an AirTag that isn’t yours has been found “moving with you.” Apple didn’t clarify how quickly or often this alert will arrive, but it did share that it will occur when you arrive at your home (the address stored in your Apple “Me” card) or at certain other locations that your phone has learned you frequent over time. Apple declined to disclose further specifics, citing the interest of public safety.

It’s not great that the alert won’t trigger until you get home. At that point, the stalker now knows where you live.

Re: Apple reveals more about AirTag stalking protections

#59

Post by crazygringo »

capableweb wrote: post #10
bombcar wrote: post #8

If you really want to track someone it's not that hard to just buy an iPhone and turn "find my iPhone" on and slip it somewhere. You could even hardwire it into a car so it remains charged.

Are you really comparing a device that costs hundreds of USD and has a form factor of... A phone, with a device that's supposed to be hooked up to a keychain and that costs 29 USD?

To be fair, it's easy to buy an old working iPhone on eBay for $30. And size is entirely irrelevant if you're putting it in someone's car.

So I think the parent makes a point worthy of discussion. If Apple is providing this protection for Airtags, why aren't they providing it for all devices?

Re: Apple reveals more about AirTag stalking protections

#60

Post by Alupis »

vineyardmike wrote: post #40
w0mbat wrote: post #18

All these stalking counter-measures make it useless if your device is stolen rather than mislaid. If my bag is stolen I want it to contain a hard to find device, not one that gives away its position (by warning the thief). I also want an easy mechanism to give the police temporary access to track it, til they catch the thief and get my stuff back.

I don’t know where you are, but in the US, if I gave the police a literal GPS coordinate of a stolen good, I still wouldnt expect them to actually go there and find it unless it’s of exceptionally high value (car, etc).

Part of the problem is the GPS resolution, which isn't accurate enough to know exactly which individual on a street has your stuff, or even which house it might be inside.

A long while back, on a early Saturday morning, I was awoken by my doorbell and accosted by an angry father of a crying daughter who had had their iPhone stolen by someone at a bar the previous night. Well, "Find My iPhone" showed the dot location of the phone was my house, so it must be me... turned out it was a neighbor two houses down - thanks Apple.

The best GPS resolution available to civilians is about 8 meters (26 feet) - and that's under the best, most ideal situation using the best GPS receiver and a large antenna... things a small cell phone in a pocket or bag doesn't have.

Cell tower triangulation isn't much better either... although the two used in unison can provide better resolution, but still far from good enough to pinpoint an exact individual, or even house (if the device is near an exterior wall, it may appear to be in the neighbor's house).

Police can't exactly go up and search people on the street because some Apple service says somebody within 20-40 feet or whatever might have the device - doubly so for searching a vehicle or house without a warrant.

So, while these devices are great for personal use - they probably cannot be used for real law enforcement purposes.

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