Facebook approves alcohol, vaping and gambling ads targeting 13-17 year olds • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook approves alcohol, vaping and gambling ads targeting 13-17 year olds

#51

Post by shakna » Wed, Apr 28, 2021, 2:35 AM UTC

adamsvystun wrote: post #24

While it is obviously unethical, is advertising alcohol, vaping and gambling to 13-17 year olds illegal in Australia? Asking because I am not sure if Facebook should be making the shots here on what is legal or illegal to advertise. This is best handled through government.

That's... A complicated question. It does appear to be a breach of ABAC Responsible Alcohol Marketing Code (3b) [0], but the ABAC would only review it if a complaint was raised.

A complaint first has to be raised with Ad Standards, who undertake ethical review on a case-by-case basis.

That is, it is generally illegal to market to those who are underage, but it is not generally illegal to display such advertising in a space where those who are outside of the target audience.

The usual legal process is to review individual ads, and those creating the adverts are the ones who end up in trouble. An entire marketplace (like Facebook) deciding that marketing to minors is okay is untested waters, because each individual advert would normally be ruled illegal so why the hell would the market allow it?

[0] https://www.abac.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/ABAC-Resp...

Re: Facebook approves alcohol, vaping and gambling ads targeting 13-17 year olds

#52

Post by cj » Wed, Apr 28, 2021, 2:35 AM UTC

nemo44x wrote: post #42

adamsvystun wrote: post #24

While it is obviously unethical, is advertising alcohol, vaping and gambling to 13-17 year olds illegal in Australia? Asking because I am not sure if Facebook should be making the shots here on what is legal or illegal to advertise. This is best handled through government.

Agreed. Instead of expecting a for-profit company to decide what’s ok we should simply pass laws that makes advertising to people under 18 illegal. For instance if your social media account says you are less than 18 then it should be illegal to show any ad to you. This will have the additional benefit of internet communication technology companies having to rethink kids as a profit center.

Banning advertising to kids under 18 is a pretty interesting idea.

You obviously can't completely ban it, since kids under 18 would still have access to cable TV, and therefore advertisments.

But I could see a system where -targeting- kids under 18 would be banned, whereas advertising as a whole is not illegal for < 18 so long as the advertisements kids are seeing aren't specifically targeted only at minors.

Re: Facebook approves alcohol, vaping and gambling ads targeting 13-17 year olds

#53

Post by xbar » Wed, Apr 28, 2021, 2:44 AM UTC

sodality2 wrote: post #19

t-writescode wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The associated comments that are downvoted seem to imply that Facebook intended for this to happen and it wasn't just automation and bureaucracy. Should it be stopped? If it violates the law, absolutely; but, we should recognize it for what it is, not some nefarious, evil plot to harm the young of multiple nations.

True, it's not malicious intent; if facebook could squeeze every cent out of their platform while advertising scented candles, they certainly would. It's the indifference that matters though.

Some ads can never be posted on Facebook (prostitution, child pornography, murder for hire, firearms). Facebook is capable of filtering ads. It is mission critical for them to do so. It is the thing they are best at in the history of the known universe: showing the right ad for maximum value and not showing ads that are not of maximum value.

These ads are posted. This is intent.

Re: Facebook approves alcohol, vaping and gambling ads targeting 13-17 year olds

#54

Post by hellbannedguy » Wed, Apr 28, 2021, 2:45 AM UTC

blonde_ocean wrote: post #40

nemo44x wrote: post #37

Pass laws to make it illegal to advertise to people under 18. We somehow expect FB to arbitrate but that’s just not possible. It isn’t even their fault in the end - they operate within legal boundaries. We should make it unlawful to advertise to people under 18 and prosecute offenders, harshly.

How in the hell can you expect advertisement in the 21st century to not reach minors? We might as well legislate that all minors must wear blindfolds at all times, or be blinded as they’re born.

Facebook brags about real identities only. If anyone could figure out an algorithm that identifies minors it's that company.

They might not get 100% accuracy, but pretty close, especially if Marky thought the fine might make him less wealthy.

Re: Facebook approves alcohol, vaping and gambling ads targeting 13-17 year olds

#55

Post by aemreunal » Wed, Apr 28, 2021, 2:48 AM UTC

rblatz wrote: post #49

WillDaSilva wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies - specifically large public for-profit companies - are amoral entities solely concerned with maximizing their profits. That Facebook acts seemingly without any morals isn't all that surprising.

This is such a “le late stage capitalism” sentiment that I see posted all the time. It completely misrepresents the responsibility of a public company to operate in its shareholders’ best interest.

I think the underlying effort with that sentiment is not to agree on what companies' responsibilities or "ethics" are, but rather to create enough guardrails (legislation, rules, public sentiment through the free press, etc.) for companies that they can't act immorally or unethically.

I think it's high time we stop assigning personalities to companies, expecting them to be "good people", and start legislating them to prevent them from harming people and the planet in the first place.

Re: Facebook approves alcohol, vaping and gambling ads targeting 13-17 year olds

#56

Post by tdonovic » Wed, Apr 28, 2021, 2:49 AM UTC

nemo44x wrote: post #43

tdonovic wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. It is absolutely illegal. Not sure anywhere where this would be legal. Ie. "TV or radio ads about alcohol cannot target children. They also should not be irresponsible in targeting adults." https://www.acma.gov.au/ads-alcohol-tobacco-or-therapeutic-g... Edit: changed the example

What does that have to do with this? I do agree though and would go further and make it illegal to show ads to anyone whose profile states they are under 18.

You can't, as in any developed nation I can think of, advertise alcohol to children. Take a look at the actions the industry has taken when they even put alcohol ads too close to children, or too appealing to children, ctrl-f for moon dog. https://www.abac.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/ABAC-Quar...

You cannot advertise alcohol to children in Australia

Re: Facebook approves alcohol, vaping and gambling ads targeting 13-17 year olds

#57

Post by cool_dude85 » Wed, Apr 28, 2021, 2:52 AM UTC

t-writescode wrote: post #46

Barrin92 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>but, we should recognize it for what it is, not some nefarious, evil plot to harm the young of multiple nations. no, it's much worse. Nefarious evil plotters at least need to sleep and eat and eventually they might grow tired of their evil scheming. This is much more miserable, this is simply the invisible hand doing its job and harming the young of multiple nations with a ruthless efficiency and precision that make…

While possibly true, we need to attack it from that angle. If you look at a person and go "you are evil!!" you win no one. If you go to someone and say "I'm seeing some behavior in the system you designed. Was this intended? It's harming people, can we fix it?" you recognize them as human and don't assume harmful intent. Then, the both of you can work to solve the problem. If you go at it the other way, you're attack…

Do you give those same backpats, kind words and smooches to Philip Morris and the other tobacco companies who spent decades advertising to kids and teens? Or just the company who you may find yourself applying for a job with?

Re: Facebook approves alcohol, vaping and gambling ads targeting 13-17 year olds

#58

Post by behringer » Wed, Apr 28, 2021, 2:52 AM UTC

scomp wrote: post #47

adamsvystun wrote: post #24

While it is obviously unethical, is advertising alcohol, vaping and gambling to 13-17 year olds illegal in Australia? Asking because I am not sure if Facebook should be making the shots here on what is legal or illegal to advertise. This is best handled through government.

When watching TV during a football (Aussie rules football not soccer) game I see probably 15-20 gambling ads and so would the 0-17 year olds watching. There is also an ad with Matthew McConaughey drinking whiskey, although im not sure if that's during prime time or late hours. Never seen a smoking or vaping ad though.

Yes but they can't run alongside children's programming or feature themes that are intended for children. Eg, they can't target 13 to 17 year olds even if it's during sports

Re: Facebook approves alcohol, vaping and gambling ads targeting 13-17 year olds

#59

Post by creata » Wed, Apr 28, 2021, 2:52 AM UTC

rblatz wrote: post #49

WillDaSilva wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies - specifically large public for-profit companies - are amoral entities solely concerned with maximizing their profits. That Facebook acts seemingly without any morals isn't all that surprising.

This is such a “le late stage capitalism” sentiment that I see posted all the time. It completely misrepresents the responsibility of a public company to operate in its shareholders’ best interest.

If you feel that it's being misrepresented, feel free to represent it properly.

Re: Facebook approves alcohol, vaping and gambling ads targeting 13-17 year olds

#60

Post by listless » Wed, Apr 28, 2021, 2:54 AM UTC

xkeysc0re wrote: post #2

I don't think there should be a minimum legal age for any of these activities. It's beyond clear that coddling helicopter government invoked disastrous consequences for Western society

I completely agree. The amount of pearl clutching happening in this thread is fascinating. It reminds me very much of the 1980’s fundamentalist Christian house I was raised in. Very much like it.