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The Origins of the Wirecard Scandal

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Re: The Origins of the Wirecard Scandal

#51

Post by durnygbur »

allendoerfer wrote: post #48
lnsru wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Real estate prices tripled or even quadrupled during last 10 years while salaries haven’t changed a lot. The rents in the cities are not really affordable anymore. Look at the problems in Berlin when the city tried to control the rental prices and failed.

Compare Berlin rents to any European capital. Man, reading all those replies, Germans do live in a bubble and do not know how privileged they are. Take a step back, look at London, realize how good you have it, just rent an apartment instead of buying one, put your money in the stock market and wait for the population to decline and the bubble to burst.

The difficult part in renting is compiling the documentation and to get accepted as a tenant. The dividend and capital gains taxes of 26.4% efficiently cool down unexperienced individual investors. The last 10 years have basically invalidated the possibility of buying housing for any individual on employment contract. Before anything will pop within next 10 years, German boomers will be chocking the remaining population even with their last death throes (while the elites holding the industry will be only consolidating their influence). ie. "the market can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent, young, and sane".

Re: The Origins of the Wirecard Scandal

#52

Post by jacquesm »

FabHK wrote: post #43
jacquesm wrote: post #28

A couple of observations: - this isn't the authoritative article on the origins of the wirecard scandal that the title would have you believe. It would be nice to read such an article but this isn't it. - BaFin, the German regulator has historically been the one to trust but failed to verify. This to a large extent because they didn't have the budget or the staff to do their work properly, traits it shares with many…

> - Another problem is that regulators tend to have a two-way revolving door with the industry they are supposed to regulate. It is pretty rare to see a regulator that really takes such an industry to task. Though the article specifically claims that this rarely happens in Germany, with the boundary between the political and commercial sphere being less porous than elsewhere.

Check out the current leadership of BaFin and other EU regulators and check their track record, and where they typically end up afterwards. The lower ranks hardly matter.

If the EU wants to solve this they actually have a head start on other regions, they could investigate each others' industries. I'm sure the French would love to regulate the Germans and vice versa!

Re: The Origins of the Wirecard Scandal

#53

Post by 271828182846 »

allendoerfer wrote: post #14

There are federal elections in September in Germany. CDU just fell behind the Green Party in recent polls and SPD (whose Olaf Scholz ultimatively was in charge of BaFin) is a shadow of it's former self anyway. I do not think the everything will turn for the better, but I am hopeful that some actions will be taken. The political style of Merkel - and Germany as a whole for that matter - of a steady hand and waiting fo…

As a German, I have to say, you're very well summarizing the current state of affairs and my own impressions. Very realistic and matter of fact - very German ;)

The US is not a role model for Germany by any standards. But of course it can very well serve as a source of inspiration just like many other cultures and countries. Sadly, precisely this is a weakness of current policitcal elite.

It's painful how deliberately they are ignoring advances in drug legislation f.x.. We have many innovative projects just around the corner (Portugal, Switzerland, Netherlands to name some). Instead policitcal affairs are driven by dogmatism and ignorance. And that's precisely the reason for many issues regarding digitalization as well.

Re: The Origins of the Wirecard Scandal

#54

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

FabHK wrote: post #36
Mashimo wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This pandemic management was/is real shitshow. Why was the pandemic management a real shitshow?

Good question. At the beginning of the pandemic, the government response was excellent (with Angela Merkel, who has a doctorate in quantum chemistry, promoting fact-based policies). [Quick background: Germany has a political system not entirely unlike the US with a federal level and "Länder" = state level. Health (along with police, education, etc.) is delegated to the Länder.] Towards the end of 2020, two things hap…

>People developed "Coronamüdigkeit" (being sick of the restrictions)

People developed sickness of restrictions because the restrictions were not tight enough to completely stop the spread, but tight enough to become annoying when dragged along for so many months (a year?).

So this half-assed restriction policy were we're kind of, sort of, locked down, but not really, got people annoyed.

The problem is, even if you want to tighten the measures now to wipe out the virus, you can't, because people are already burned out from the previous half-assed measures trat dragged on for so long.

Re: The Origins of the Wirecard Scandal

#55

Post by volta83 »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #25
allendoerfer wrote: post #14

There are federal elections in September in Germany. CDU just fell behind the Green Party in recent polls and SPD (whose Olaf Scholz ultimatively was in charge of BaFin) is a shadow of it's former self anyway. I do not think the everything will turn for the better, but I am hopeful that some actions will be taken. The political style of Merkel - and Germany as a whole for that matter - of a steady hand and waiting fo…

>I take a socially relatively cohesive country, where an illness or going to university will not bankrupt you, where your kids can travel alone in public transportation, where police shootings per year are single digits, where the air is very breathable and the tap water is drinkable over world leadership any time You're obviously entitled to your oppinion, but can we please stop pushing this cherry picked cliché nar…

> Fine, but can we please stop pushing this cherry picked cliche narrative of "US bad because healthcare, shootings and tap water."?

Are you saying those aren't issues?

Because I've lived in the US, and know many Europeans that have lived there or traveled there on holidays, and pretty much all of them agree that:

- the first time in their lives they were afraid of getting ill was when they started living in the US

- they were all astonished at the amount of homeless people living in tents in the downtowns of all major cities (here if a major city has like ~10 people sleeping outside in winter, that's bad, but the US is just shockingly bad)

- the first time in their lives they were afraid of getting killed was in the US (e.g. interacting with the cops, walking through some neighborhoods) because people were carelessly carrying guns outside (there are guns in Europe, some countries like Switzerland have a ton of guns, but the way people manage guns in public, and that includes police, is radically different)

- they were all astonished and the amount of fat people, and how fat they were. What people consider "fat" in Europe would probably be "normal" or maybe even "thin" in the US. You don't find in Europe people that are so fat that don't fit through the door of a bus.

These are not narratives, these are facts that every European that lives or has lived in the US will happily tell you about.

The US style of living is great if you have money, but Europeans measure their style of living by how the poorest people in their country live, not the richest people.

By those measures, the US is an outrageous place for pretty much all European standards.

> That's like saying Europe suffers from mass terrorist attacks and sexual assaults on young women.

Do you think that's a made up narrative? Because everyone I know in Europe agrees that this is true, that these are horrible issues to have, and that these issues need fixing.

Your argument that "the US has no issues because Europe has issues" is typically known as "whataboutism".

Don't be a "whataboutist". It doesn't help fix neither Europe's nor USA's issues.

Re: The Origins of the Wirecard Scandal

#56

Post by Thomasmack »

lnsru wrote: post #22
allendoerfer wrote: post #14

There are federal elections in September in Germany. CDU just fell behind the Green Party in recent polls and SPD (whose Olaf Scholz ultimatively was in charge of BaFin) is a shadow of it's former self anyway. I do not think the everything will turn for the better, but I am hopeful that some actions will be taken. The political style of Merkel - and Germany as a whole for that matter - of a steady hand and waiting fo…

So many wishful thinking. I bet there will be no changes after election. Why should it be? Germany will continue slowly declining with whole Europe. This pandemic management was/is real shitshow. The universities are other funny thing. They have no future with heavily underpaid staff and work contracts for 6-12 month working contracts. Max Planck and Fraunhofer are sweatshops for industrial partners. They do the task…

> Germany will continue slowly declining with whole Europe.

I agree and this is really sad. Thinking of migrating because I plan to have a family and want them to grow up in the best environment. Which countries you guys think will be the best bet?

Re: The Origins of the Wirecard Scandal

#57

Post by EdwardDiego »

What got me about German business, as a Kiwi working with Germans, was a few things:

1) How cosy everyone in a given sphere is with each other

2) The nearly inevitable strip-club and coke in relationship building

3) The prevalence of kick-backs in contracts, although obviously euphemistically renamed.

4) How Germans accepted corruption as part of life

5) How they were proud that their corruption still got things built, unlike, say, the Italians

Now I don't really have much experience outside of these two countries, so maybe this is the norm around the world. But shit.

My DE parent company turned up on Muddy Water's[1] short list because of interesting share assignments, (paying above average for acquisitions) and unusual interactions with related entities. And I'm really not surprised.

And I really struggled to not use the word cosy repeatedly in this, because it was applicable to much of it, and really sums up Germany's informal corruption as I've experienced it.

Not that I claim NZ is any better, but here slight corruption doesn't feel like an accepted norm.

[1]: https://www.muddywatersresearch.com/

Re: The Origins of the Wirecard Scandal

#58

Post by luckylion »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #16
michaelscott wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if it's intentional separation of powers. The American culture is very individualistic, especially compared to the German. This just naturally means that American companies tend to "go it alone" in relation to the public sector for longer than they would in Germany. Certainly when American companies get to the right size they seem to become much closer to the political bodies that matter to them and thei…

>The American culture is very individualistic, especially compared to the German. I wouldn't rush to this conclusion. US billionaires usually run many charity funds whereas German billionaires rarely do anything like that. Also, German businesses owners don't seem to mind exploiting people's health and the environment (VW emissions scandal) or foreign workers [1] if it makes them money, so I think the same issues tha…

> I think the same issues that plague capitalism in the US (greed) affect Germany too.

Definitely. It's a cultural thing, Germany (along with most Western countries) seems to follow the US in that regard.

The individualism collectivism scale is well studied, and there's a significant gap between the US and Germany.

http://clearlycultural.com/geert-hofstede-cultural-dimension...

Re: The Origins of the Wirecard Scandal

#59

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

volta83 wrote: post #55
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I take a socially relatively cohesive country, where an illness or going to university will not bankrupt you, where your kids can travel alone in public transportation, where police shootings per year are single digits, where the air is very breathable and the tap water is drinkable over world leadership any time You're obviously entitled to your oppinion, but can we please stop pushing this cherry picked cliché nar…

> Fine, but can we please stop pushing this cherry picked cliche narrative of "US bad because healthcare, shootings and tap water."? Are you saying those aren't issues? Because I've lived in the US, and know many Europeans that have lived there or traveled there on holidays, and pretty much all of them agree that: - the first time in their lives they were afraid of getting ill was when they started living in the US -…

>Your argument that "the US has no issues because Europe has issues" is typically known as "whataboutism".

Sorry, but wasn't grandparent's (u/allendoerfer) original post the one that started the whataboutism? I was just contradicting him with a mirrored whataboutism to prove why his way of thinking is wrong? Why are you only cherry picking mine?

The topic was regarding one of Germany's failure, and Grandparent (u/allendoerfer) posted something along the lines of "at least in Germany we have have breathable air and drinkable water unlike Americans who get shot instead".

What does that have to do with the Wirecard situation and how is that anything else but severe offtopic whataboutism?

>Europeans measure their style of living by how the poorest people in their country live, not the richest people.

No they don't, otherwise, the wealth-gap between rich and poor wouldn't be at an all-time high in Germany/Europe [1][2].

[1]https://www.iamexpat.de/expat-info/german-expat-news/inherit...

[2]https://www.dw.com/en/study-shows-growing-wealth-inequality-...

Re: The Origins of the Wirecard Scandal

#60

Post by FrojoS »

Mashimo wrote: post #24
lnsru wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So many wishful thinking. I bet there will be no changes after election. Why should it be? Germany will continue slowly declining with whole Europe. This pandemic management was/is real shitshow. The universities are other funny thing. They have no future with heavily underpaid staff and work contracts for 6-12 month working contracts. Max Planck and Fraunhofer are sweatshops for industrial partners. They do the task…

> This pandemic management was/is real shitshow. Why was the pandemic management a real shitshow?

Not ordering enough vaccines and in a timely manner because wanting "a European solution" was perhaps the biggest fuck up.

Wasted billions for pennies and killed thousands of people.

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