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Research into hallucinogenic drugs begins to shake off decades of taboo

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Re: Research into hallucinogenic drugs begins to shake off decades of taboo

#51
post #44
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does hallucinating do that, other than people going insane like they are on PCP?

"Hallucinating" is really a misnomer when discussing LSD and shrooms. "Profound changes in perception and cognition" would be more like it.

Fundamentally, the clinical definition of "hallucination" does not apply to 90% of the effects of psychedelic drugs. "Perceptual disturbances" would be the correct term.

A hallucination is the perception of something that is not there at all, and it generally means that the thing is sincerely perceived as real.

Psychedelic experiences typically fulfil neither of these criteria.

Re: Research into hallucinogenic drugs begins to shake off decades of taboo

#52
MAPS (maps.org, the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies) is one of the best run nonprofits out there (I have donated for years). They have very low overhead, and in addition to directly funding key research (which is expensive) have gotten funding from other sources to cover important research into the use of MDMA and hallucinogens to treat diseases and disorders such as PTSD.

Re: Research into hallucinogenic drugs begins to shake off decades of taboo

#53
post #38
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't most recreational drugs addictive and destructive? It's not too hard to understand why there's a stigma.

Wow, that's a lot of downvotes and only one counter-point. What sorts of recreational drugs are not addictive? And what sorts of drugs will not mess you up when taken in "recreational" dosages?

> What sorts of recreational drugs are not addictive?

> And what sorts of drugs will not mess you up when taken in "recreational" dosages?

Alcohol is one, if we change "not addictive" to "not always addictive".

Alcohol certainly can be powerfully addictive, but you can also use it periodically in small doses throughout your adult life without becoming dependent.

Alcohol certainly can be massively destructive, but, depending on your definition of a recreational dose, it not. It can actually have health benefits, and is associated with longevity.

Re: Research into hallucinogenic drugs begins to shake off decades of taboo

#54
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Hallucinating" is really a misnomer when discussing LSD and shrooms. "Profound changes in perception and cognition" would be more like it.

Fundamentally, the clinical definition of "hallucination" does not apply to 90% of the effects of psychedelic drugs. "Perceptual disturbances" would be the correct term. A hallucination is the perception of something that is not there at all, and it generally means that the thing is sincerely perceived as real. Psychedelic experiences typically fulfil neither of these criteria.

Many people genuinely believe that when they take these substances they are communing with the universe, with god(s), aliens, ancestors, or the deep levels of their own subconscious.

To call such experiences mere "hallucinations" or "perceptual disturbances" is both reductionist and dismissive.

Re: Research into hallucinogenic drugs begins to shake off decades of taboo

#55
post #38
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't most recreational drugs addictive and destructive? It's not too hard to understand why there's a stigma.

Wow, that's a lot of downvotes and only one counter-point. What sorts of recreational drugs are not addictive? And what sorts of drugs will not mess you up when taken in "recreational" dosages?

It's great that you are asking questions. Your mind seems open and you are expressing a willingness to learn. To that end I recommend the following books:

The Psychedelics Experience by Peter Stafford

Pikhal by Alexander Shulgin

Acid Dreams by Lee and Shlain

The Illuminatus Trilogy by Shea and Wilson

Plants of the Gods by Richard Evans Schultes

The Archaic Revival by Terrence McKenna

The Psychedelic Explorer's Guide by James Fadiman

That should get you started. Good luck, and have a safe trip.

Re: Research into hallucinogenic drugs begins to shake off decades of taboo

#56
post #6
post #4

I have never understood the mechanics of 'drug is bad if use equal entertainment'. It will be interesting to see if the release of this information and the refereed to thaw in the taboo will lead anywhere...

Aren't most recreational drugs addictive and destructive? It's not too hard to understand why there's a stigma.

Food can be addictive and destructive. Sex can be addictive and destructive. Money and power can be addictive and destructive.

"Recreational drugs" can be used in respectful ways. To many they are holy and sacred.

They can enhance your creativity, open your eyes to the wonder of the universe around you, and gift you with empathy for all living creatures.

With them you can experience death and rebirth and profoundly transform the way you understand and relate to the world. They can be intensely therapeutic.

There is certainly a stigma against all that, and against certain drugs and experiences which buck against the need for many people to reduce life to a little tiny and orderly box under their command where they can channel your world view and your understanding of yourself and others in a manner of their liking.

Yet despite all of their efforts they can not fully resist the deep need of humanity to transcend their ordinary state of consciousness. Each society has sanctioned ways of doing this, whether it's through certain approved substances (like alcohol), rituals, or ordeals.

Curiously, societies tend to differ as to which mind altering substances are prohibited and which are allowed. Usually it's the substances with a long tradition of use in the given society that are allowed, and the newer substances which are prohibited. The very same substances which are allowed and even praised in one society might be despised and prohibited in others (alcohol, mushrooms, and marijuana are some great examples).

Mind altering substances which a particular society is encountering for the first time and the use of which can not be easily fit in to the dominant culture's traditions are usually seen as a threat.

But this can change over time as the members of that society get more familiar with the substances and learn to use them in socially sanctioned ways.

Re: Research into hallucinogenic drugs begins to shake off decades of taboo

#58
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fundamentally, the clinical definition of "hallucination" does not apply to 90% of the effects of psychedelic drugs. "Perceptual disturbances" would be the correct term. A hallucination is the perception of something that is not there at all, and it generally means that the thing is sincerely perceived as real. Psychedelic experiences typically fulfil neither of these criteria.

Many people genuinely believe that when they take these substances they are communing with the universe, with god(s), aliens, ancestors, or the deep levels of their own subconscious. To call such experiences mere "hallucinations" or "perceptual disturbances" is both reductionist and dismissive.

To tell someone to their face that their experiences amounted to nothing more than perceptual disturbances would be at best rude, and at worst cruel, agreed.

However I think it's appropriate vocabulary when attempting objective analysis of neurological/psychological phenomena. Reductionism is an inevitable and valid criticism of any such analysis.

(When I said "real" in this instance I was referring to the physical existence of objects perceived, your ability to reach out and touch them. I wasn't trying to make a value judgement about the validity or authenticity of anyones subjective experiences.)

Re: Research into hallucinogenic drugs begins to shake off decades of taboo

#59

Is there a genuine resurgence of interest in psychedelics in the geek community, or is it just me? There seems to be a new article posted on HN on psychedelics every few weeks. Could this be the dawn of a new 1960s?

"Could this be the dawn of a new 1960s?"

No. In the 1960s psychedelics were part of the counterculture, whereas today the research and interest is all (purposely) revolving around their potential as tools for the mainstream. In fact that's probably the biggest thing we learned from the 60s, is that if we want these substances to be accepted then we need to integrate them with our existing culture, institutions, and values. If you go to any of the conferences on the academic research into psychedelics then one of the first things you'll pick up on is how much most of them hate Timothy Leary, or at the very least his legacy.

Re: Research into hallucinogenic drugs begins to shake off decades of taboo

#60
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people genuinely believe that when they take these substances they are communing with the universe, with god(s), aliens, ancestors, or the deep levels of their own subconscious. To call such experiences mere "hallucinations" or "perceptual disturbances" is both reductionist and dismissive.

To tell someone to their face that their experiences amounted to nothing more than perceptual disturbances would be at best rude, and at worst cruel, agreed. However I think it's appropriate vocabulary when attempting objective analysis of neurological/psychological phenomena. Reductionism is an inevitable and valid criticism of any such analysis. (When I said "real" in this instance I was referring to the physical e…

"I think it's appropriate vocabulary when attempting objective analysis of neurological/psychological phenomena"

Without getting in to a deep conversation on objectivity, neurology, and psychology, I'll just say that I don't think these issues are so clear cut as to allow anyone to definitively say that he's on the side of truth and the phenomena he describes are "nothing but X", whatever that "X" may be.

"When I said "real" in this instance I was referring to the physical existence of objects perceived, your ability to reach out and touch them."

There are plenty of things that, even according to the "scientific" world view, purportedly exist and yet can't be touched or directly percieved, such as x-rays and atoms.

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