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Ethereum staking – More sustainable crypto

ethereum.org

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Re: Ethereum staking – More sustainable crypto

#51

Post by kybernetikos »

jude- wrote: post #49

> Rewards are given for actions that help the network reach consensus. You'll get rewards for batching transactions into a new block or checking the work of other validators because that's what keeps the chain running securely. The unstated gotcha here is that the chain operates through a variation of BFT agreement where staked coins vote for new blocks. All the usual BFT constraints apply -- namely, if fewer than 66…

> the means of making new coins tomorrow are intrinsically tied to owning coins today by the protocol itself.

It's not a shocking economic situation that you can use capital to acquire more capital. I don't know exactly what equilibrium the long term staking rewards will tend to, but it's not very different from interest - where for nearly no risk your capital lodged with a bank increases. The other side is that in a healthy financial system, locking money up has a cost too, so it's appropriate to recompense those who do.

Re: Ethereum staking – More sustainable crypto

#52

Post by cinquemb »

antocv wrote: post #15
rhn_mk1 wrote: post #4

Staking requires putting aside 32 ETH for something around 2 years. That's a tad prohibitive at current prices.

You can stake with Avalanche (AVAX) today for a smaller price which will be decreased in near future. ETH like all other classical nakamoto algorithms have a limit on number of participants in consensus. Avalanche has no such limit on decentralization without sacrificing security or throughput.

Yeah, i'm working on multichain stuff now, and i've pretty much dropped geth/ganache for avalanchego for running simulations… really can't compete with the innovation on the consensus layer… and all the security tradoffs put forth in the eth l2's can be done with coreth for even more "scalability".

With the fracturing taking place now in the eth ecosytem, its only a matter of time avalanche sees more adoption just purely on the technical capability basis.

Re: Ethereum staking – More sustainable crypto

#53

Post by jude- »

kybernetikos wrote: post #51
jude- wrote: post #49

> Rewards are given for actions that help the network reach consensus. You'll get rewards for batching transactions into a new block or checking the work of other validators because that's what keeps the chain running securely. The unstated gotcha here is that the chain operates through a variation of BFT agreement where staked coins vote for new blocks. All the usual BFT constraints apply -- namely, if fewer than 66…

> the means of making new coins tomorrow are intrinsically tied to owning coins today by the protocol itself. It's not a shocking economic situation that you can use capital to acquire more capital. I don't know exactly what equilibrium the long term staking rewards will tend to, but it's not very different from interest - where for nearly no risk your capital lodged with a bank increases. The other side is that in a…

I'm talking about the impact of tying coin ownership to coin production on the chain's resiliency, not the morality of earning interest.

Re: Ethereum staking – More sustainable crypto

#54

Post by antocv »

devmunchies wrote: post #35
antocv wrote: post #31

Why wait for ETH when we already have a better sustainable currency, more secure and which supports ETH contracts out of the box? Avalanche.

network effects. integrations. ecosystems. its why any big consumer app isn't easily displaced.

Same can be said why ETH PoW wont be displaced. Too much is already invested in it. Move to a different project altogether, if you want a sustainable future.

Re: Ethereum staking – More sustainable crypto

#56

Post by ArcFeind »

TacoToni wrote: post #43
ArcFeind wrote: post #39

Reading through the FAQ on staking it says you will get penalties for being offline and the network eats through 800mb/hour which comes out to around 576gb/month. Is this practical to do at home? Or are pools the way to go for people on consumer home internet?

Great question! The penalties for being offline are equal to the rewards you would have earned. It is okay to be offline if you have minor outage for few hours or if you're moving and will be offline for a few days. You simply would need to go back online for the same amount of time to make your rewards back. I am a solo staker. My machine churns through about 800 gb/month. I am a huge advocate for solo staking if yo…

Thanks I'll check out the subreddit to keep learning about this. Been putting it off for months.

I don't think I can do staking at home because Comcast would shut me down if I start using 800gb/mo

Re: Ethereum staking – More sustainable crypto

#57

Post by SavantIdiot »

SwagtimusPrime wrote: post #25
SavantIdiot wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. However it still is dominated by the "haves" vs the "have nots". Proof of stake is awarded to those with the largest stakes, which favors state-sponsored miners and works against decentralization. I like how Monero's RandomX is designed to level the playing field: ASIC miners don't significantly improve over CPU mining so more people can participate in mining. Of course, this doesn't address pools, but it is…

>However it still is dominated by the "haves" vs the "have nots". Proof of stake is awarded to those with the largest stakes, which favors state-sponsored miners and works against decentralization. where is the difference to mining? To mine you need GPUs and electricity which you can equate to $$$, just like capital you lock up under PoS. it effectively makes no difference. and everyone earns the same percentages, wh…

The percentage is based on hardware invested or capital staked.

I don't think it should be. That is just lazily giving a pass to whales to dominate what is supposed to be decentralized. Totally counter to the spirit of cryptocurrency.

Re: Ethereum staking – More sustainable crypto

#58

Post by DennisP »

SavantIdiot wrote: post #57
SwagtimusPrime wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>However it still is dominated by the "haves" vs the "have nots". Proof of stake is awarded to those with the largest stakes, which favors state-sponsored miners and works against decentralization. where is the difference to mining? To mine you need GPUs and electricity which you can equate to $$$, just like capital you lock up under PoS. it effectively makes no difference. and everyone earns the same percentages, wh…

The percentage is based on hardware invested or capital staked. I don't think it should be. That is just lazily giving a pass to whales to dominate what is supposed to be decentralized. Totally counter to the spirit of cryptocurrency.

In PoS everybody gets the same rate of return. On Ethereum it's currently about 8% annualized, regardless of how much you have staked.

On Bitcoin everybody gets about the same rate of return, but major operations can generally get first access to the newest ASICs or special deals for electric power, so their rates are better.

No cryptocurrency has found a way to give the exact same rewards to every human participating. That'd require some kind of verified identity. It's always going to be a rate of return times amount invested in hardware/stake.

Re: Ethereum staking – More sustainable crypto

#59

Post by tobltobs »

jude- wrote: post #49

> Rewards are given for actions that help the network reach consensus. You'll get rewards for batching transactions into a new block or checking the work of other validators because that's what keeps the chain running securely. The unstated gotcha here is that the chain operates through a variation of BFT agreement where staked coins vote for new blocks. All the usual BFT constraints apply -- namely, if fewer than 66…

Thank you for this interesting comment. Are there any places on the internet where you can find worthwhile discussions about this stuff?

Re: Ethereum staking – More sustainable crypto

#60

Post by sendbitcoins »

sauwan wrote: post #50
rhn_mk1 wrote: post #4

Staking requires putting aside 32 ETH for something around 2 years. That's a tad prohibitive at current prices.

Is there a way for stakers to safely pool?

Coinbase will manage it for you unless you are in NY

https://help.coinbase.com/en/coinbase/trading-and-funding/st...

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