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Apple sued for terminating account with $25k worth of apps and videos

arstechnica.com

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Re: Apple sued for terminating account with $25k worth of apps and videos

#51

Post by Mindwipe »

bityard wrote: post #39
black_puppydog wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm afraid you might be right about 2, but wrt 1 I think you can absolutely sue your way out of a contract if it was made after blatantly false advertising, no?

Well, that's what the court case is about. I would certainly _like_ for the result of the case to be either Apple (Amazon, et al) stops using the word "Buy" in their apps, or better yet but even more unlikely, for the companies to start providing media as DRM-free downloads. But like I said: the cynic in me says neither is going to happen.

There is zero chance of DRM free downloads. Literally zero.

Re: Apple sued for terminating account with $25k worth of apps and videos

#53

Post by alisonkisk »

dmitryminkovsky wrote: post #4
realusername wrote: post #3

> Apple countered by arguing that “no reasonable consumer would believe” that content purchased through iTunes would be available on the platform indefinitely Remember this sentence to change your mind for the next time you see some movie to buy online.

Really surprised to see Apple taking this approach. You'd think they could have come up with something less offensive to their users. This is the exact same line Sidney Powell is using in her defense against Dominion: "'No Reasonable Person' Thought Her Election Fraud Claims Were Fact" [0]. Amused but not surprised to see this from her, I am quite aghast to see this from Apple. The fact is, just like any reasonable p…

"no reasonable person" defense is used when the defendant knows they were caught in a lie and have no other defense. It's the legal version of "just a prank bro" or "I was kidding", and just as despicable.

Re: Apple sued for terminating account with $25k worth of apps and videos

#54

Post by rascul »

gambiting wrote: post #34
bityard wrote: post #23

I hate to be so cynical, but here's exactly how this is going to play out, or I'll eat my hat: 1. Apple and Amazon will add language to their Terms and Conditions stating that regardless of the phrasing on their websites and apps, access to the media that customers purchase will be revoked if their account is terminated. And since it's in the agreement, it's binding: in general, you can't sue to get out of a contract…

In general, contracts can say literally whatever they want, and it doesn't mean they will stand up in court. If the court agrees that Apple selling $25k worth of stuff and denying access to it isn't "fair", then it isn't fair, end of story, regardless of what the contract says. The court might of course disagree, but you can't be certain until the case happens. I do however believe that Apple will just settle this ou…

I think the courts are going to look for legality instead of fairness.

Re: Apple sued for terminating account with $25k worth of apps and videos

#55

Post by 1cvmask »

Diggsey wrote: post #17

IMO it wouldn't matter if they'd used the word "Rent" or "Licence" instead: it would still be unreasonable. Account termination is entirely at Apple's discretion, meaning the term of your "rental" is not known when you actually pay for the content. For most people the term will be "forever", so that is the expectation. It's simple: if apple want to terminate your account, they need to refund you for any content you l…

Do we know why his account was terminated? I couldn’t find anything on that.

Re: Apple sued for terminating account with $25k worth of apps and videos

#56

Post by syshum »

bityard wrote: post #23

I hate to be so cynical, but here's exactly how this is going to play out, or I'll eat my hat: 1. Apple and Amazon will add language to their Terms and Conditions stating that regardless of the phrasing on their websites and apps, access to the media that customers purchase will be revoked if their account is terminated. And since it's in the agreement, it's binding: in general, you can't sue to get out of a contract…

Click wrapped Terms of Service like that need to be ruled as Unenforceable Unconscionable contracts as they are clearly soo one sided they can not be seen by any reasonable person to be enforceable

Re: Apple sued for terminating account with $25k worth of apps and videos

#57

Post by alisonkisk »

1cvmask wrote: post #52

Does anyone why they terminated his account?

Generally speaking, the corporation can terminate your count for secret reasons, including violating any term of any service they offer, such as storing something that looks like offensive content.

Re: Apple sued for terminating account with $25k worth of apps and videos

#58

Post by daemoon »

xyst wrote: post #43

Apple could have avoided this issue entirely by allowing users to download the content without any DRM to a storage provider of their choice (ie, Dropbox, or local storage).

This is not even an option, since it will just make it easier to share files illegally and defeat the whole purpose of having an online movie store.

Re: Apple sued for terminating account with $25k worth of apps and videos

#59

Post by ldiracdelta »

1cvmask wrote: post #55
Diggsey wrote: post #17

IMO it wouldn't matter if they'd used the word "Rent" or "Licence" instead: it would still be unreasonable. Account termination is entirely at Apple's discretion, meaning the term of your "rental" is not known when you actually pay for the content. For most people the term will be "forever", so that is the expectation. It's simple: if apple want to terminate your account, they need to refund you for any content you l…

Do we know why his account was terminated? I couldn’t find anything on that.

People don't own the things they buy. They don't have property rights today. Today, a mob or a single unaccountable low-level account reviewer may declare someone an "out law" and anyone may do anything they like to him as is the old germanic tradition.

Re: Apple sued for terminating account with $25k worth of apps and videos

#60

Post by Vespasian »

cipher_system wrote: post #5
realusername wrote: post #3

> Apple countered by arguing that “no reasonable consumer would believe” that content purchased through iTunes would be available on the platform indefinitely Remember this sentence to change your mind for the next time you see some movie to buy online.

I always assumed they would be available as long as Apple or iTunes doesn't go under. Guess i'm not a reasonable consumer but luckily I haven't spent much money on them.

Apple and friends will do their best to avoid a ruling and laws which could establish this interpretation because it would end their practice to terminate accounts with the reason "Computer says no".

When contracting with consumers these companies should be forced to be liable and accountable for their algorithmic decisions and arbitrary policy enforcement.

That wouldn't be unreasonable at all. "They clicked the accept EULA button" is not a valid excuse.

Pretending that consumers are able to negotiate a fair contract with Apple is denying reality.

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