The USPS is running a 'covert' program to monitor Americans' social media posts • Hacker News Board

Re: The USPS is running a 'covert' program to monitor Americans' social media posts

#51

Post by filoleg » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 9:15 PM UTC

stefan_ wrote: post #27

mattmanser wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, look at it from totally the opposite direction to see their point of view. Your workers are under threat from poorly made postal bombs that could easily blow up during processing, killing your workers. Due to the vast volume of post you process, the threat is real and non-trivial. Do you do nothing? I think you obviously have to do something, whether you go as far as they did is what's up for debate.

Yes, when will the USPS do something about the 0 postal workers killed from letter bombs this year, last year, the year before last, the year before last before last year, ...? More of them are endangered by their shitbox LLV trucks catching on fire.

Bombs in packages isn't the only thing that threatens postal workers that USPS is trying to protect.

For example, look at this[0]. Two people physically attacked a postal worker after accusing her of "stealing their stimulus checks"[1].

Sure, you can say that this case had nothing to do with USPS surveillance. But it just goes to show that there are plenty of serious dangers to postal workers other than just nigh-non-existent "bomb in the mail" scenarios that you seem to be fixating on.

0. https://www.kiro7.com/news/trending/police-make-arrest-after...

1. https://news.yahoo.com/usps-worker-beaten-michigan-alleged-1...

Re: The USPS is running a 'covert' program to monitor Americans' social media posts

#52

Post by reaperducer » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 9:15 PM UTC

The USPS is running a 'covert' program to monitor Americans' social media posts

Of course it is. Why wouldn't it? Crazy people put all kinds of crazy things in the mail. Have we so quickly forgotten the Unabomber? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Kaczynski

The next time anthrax or ricin shows up in a politician's mailbox, the same people gritting their teeth about this will bark about why more wasn't done to detect and prevent it.

Re: The USPS is running a 'covert' program to monitor Americans' social media posts

#53

Post by sneak » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 9:16 PM UTC

> “Analysts with the United States Postal Inspection Service (USPIS) Internet Covert Operations Program (iCOP) monitored significant activity regarding planned protests occurring internationally and domestically on March 20, 2021,” says the March 16 government bulletin, marked as “law enforcement sensitive” and distributed through the Department of Homeland Security’s fusion centers. “Locations and times have been identified for these protests, which are being distributed online across multiple social media platforms, to include right-wing leaning Parler and Telegram accounts.”

> A number of groups were expected to gather in cities around the globe on March 20 as part of a World Wide Rally for Freedom and Democracy, to protest everything from lockdown measures to 5G. “Parler users have commented about their intent to use the rallies to engage in violence. Image 3 on the right is a screenshot from Parler indicating two users discussing the event as an opportunity to engage in a ‘fight’ and to ‘do serious damage,’” says the bulletin.

> “No intelligence is available to suggest the legitimacy of these threats,” it adds.

Oh, that doesn't seem like an asymmetric allocation of resources at all. It's totally not trivially exploitable like the ticket presales in Tulsa or anything.

This "we have to respond to all potential threats, no matter how trivial" doctrine is a ridiculous waste of time and resources even in the best case. In the worst case, it overcommits to an impossible task.

I think it's reasonable to rate their competence level at "the cybers" around the same level as their ability to keep a "covert" operation off of Yahoo News.

Re: The USPS is running a 'covert' program to monitor Americans' social media posts

#54

Post by reaperducer » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 9:17 PM UTC

stefan_ wrote: post #27

mattmanser wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, look at it from totally the opposite direction to see their point of view. Your workers are under threat from poorly made postal bombs that could easily blow up during processing, killing your workers. Due to the vast volume of post you process, the threat is real and non-trivial. Do you do nothing? I think you obviously have to do something, whether you go as far as they did is what's up for debate.

Yes, when will the USPS do something about the 0 postal workers killed from letter bombs this year, last year, the year before last, the year before last before last year, ...? More of them are endangered by their shitbox LLV trucks catching on fire.

when will the USPS do something about the 0 postal workers killed from letter bombs this year

And how do you think that number became zero? Magic bomb-negating fairies?

Re: The USPS is running a 'covert' program to monitor Americans' social media posts

#55

Post by Lammy » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 9:17 PM UTC

Were the 2001 "Amerithrax" letters the justification for this program? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_anthrax_attacks

Re: The USPS is running a 'covert' program to monitor Americans' social media posts

#56

Post by shadowgovt » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 9:18 PM UTC

nickysielicki wrote: post #5

Hah, remember this story? https://apnews.com/article/1e42c1a6fd324f5784c414fcd2adbd17 > The U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives lost track of most of the guns, including two found at the scene where a U.S. Border Patrol Agent was fatally shot in the Arizona desert. The operation sparked a political backlash against the Obama administration. > Attkisson left CBS in 2014 and is now the host of “Ful…

I'm not very certain that a nation of 350 million people can be kept stable without some amount of internal espionage.

Most human constructs of that size have espionage going on between them (for example, that's more than the population of Germany and Russia combined, and those nations are definitely spying on each other). The fact that they have a thick border drawn on the map between them and the US has thin borders drawn on its map probably implies the US should spy on itself less... But how much less?

Internal espionage has been key at several points in the history of the US for preventing internal power structures from overriding law and order (the Chicago mafia, for example). It has, obviously, also been leveraged against the rights of law-abiding citizens.

Re: The USPS is running a 'covert' program to monitor Americans' social media posts

#57

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 9:24 PM UTC

DocTomoe wrote: post #18

jfengel wrote: post #9

News flash: people read things that you make public on the Web.

There is a qualitative difference between "people reading things you make public on the web" and "a government-funded agency uses extensive technological means to read, categorize and threat-assess your statements on the net, and have the power to throw you into jail for an indeterminate length of time - or worse."

[deleted]

Re: The USPS is running a 'covert' program to monitor Americans' social media posts

#58

Post by cblackthornekc » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 9:28 PM UTC

mattmanser wrote: post #21

_-david-_ wrote: post #14

It seems like this should be the job of the FBI, DHS or some other agency like that. The Post Office should deliver mail and packages not investigate material on the internet.

To be fair, look at it from totally the opposite direction to see their point of view. Your workers are under threat from poorly made postal bombs that could easily blow up during processing, killing your workers. Due to the vast volume of post you process, the threat is real and non-trivial. Do you do nothing? I think you obviously have to do something, whether you go as far as they did is what's up for debate.

You don't even have to say bombs, the article lists a great example. They are tracking protests. I think I would like to be aware if where I normally deliver mail I'm walking into a protest that might get violent.

Re: The USPS is running a 'covert' program to monitor Americans' social media posts

#59

Post by throwaway8581 » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 9:30 PM UTC

starkd wrote: post #6

nickysielicki wrote: post #5

Hah, remember this story? https://apnews.com/article/1e42c1a6fd324f5784c414fcd2adbd17 > The U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives lost track of most of the guns, including two found at the scene where a U.S. Border Patrol Agent was fatally shot in the Arizona desert. The operation sparked a political backlash against the Obama administration. > Attkisson left CBS in 2014 and is now the host of “Ful…

Not too much to ask at all. Every American should be outraged.

Half of Americans, and the vast majority of powerful institutions, are just fine with this because the targets are right-wingers.

Re: The USPS is running a 'covert' program to monitor Americans' social media posts

#60

Post by netfortius » Thu, Apr 22, 2021, 9:33 PM UTC

The things that troubles me the most is abysmal record when it comes to delivery (pun intended) of fundamental services, e.g. interruptions in delivery of mail for weeks, then only partial delivery, critical documents lost, medication lost, credit cards "lost", etc., etc.