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Pictures reveal the isolated lives of Japan’s social recluses (2018)

nationalgeographic.com

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Re: Pictures reveal the isolated lives of Japan’s social recluses (2018)

#51

Post by ThrowawayR2 »

vsareto wrote: post #24
pm90 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe there’s research in the social sciences that show that social contact and connections have a very positive impact on people’s health. Of course, such studies measure the average so each individual’s situation may be different. But it’s also not clear to me why it would be different for such large of a group.

I've always wondered if you were a recluse but had an excellent diet/fitness routine that the social contact benefits for health would not matter anymore. It's actually the best possible scenario for getting extremely fit because you don't have a job or social obligations.

> "I've always wondered if you were a recluse but had an excellent diet/fitness routine that the social contact benefits for health would not matter anymore."

Solitary confinement in prisons is known to be detrimental to mental health so that seems most likely to be false.

Re: Pictures reveal the isolated lives of Japan’s social recluses (2018)

#52

Post by slx26 »

kjrose wrote: post #8

"According to him, he is a great man and could do extraordinary things, but he does not always try his best" This is right here probably a major explanation for the whole phenomena. I have seen this exact attitude with individuals who are in their 30s and living with their parents. Something in their upbringing gave them this immense sense of worth but the world isn't rewarding them for the little work they do as muc…

Not to completely deny your point, but we should be much more careful: in my opinion, a big part of mental illness stigma comes from the inability of society to see a culprit, and instead let the individual become the culprit. We are very biased to rationalize stuff. If we don't see an abusive family, economic problems, obvious disabilities, etc, we tend to rationalize something else and not admit that maybe there are psychological barriers and obstacles that are disabling a person. Being in social isolation is not easier than working hard. It's a complicated problem.

I personally believe the best attitude is to accept that if someone can't get out of a certain situation by themselves, they need help. No additional judgement required. Now, who you want to help or whether you want to help someone is your choice, as we often already have enough trouble in our own lives to also go helping others. That's ok. But anything else is trying to rationalize who needs more help, when we are always lacking context and perspective.

Re: Pictures reveal the isolated lives of Japan’s social recluses (2018)

#53

Post by kiba »

kjrose wrote: post #42
kiba wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is right here probably a major explanation for the whole phenomena. I have seen this exact attitude with individuals who are in their 30s and living with their parents. Something in their upbringing gave them this immense sense of worth but the world isn't rewarding them for the little work they do as much as they think it's worth. This is extremely presumptive and dismissive. Also living with your parents isn't…

I am not referring to everyone who lives at home with parents, nor am I saying that living at home with parents is a bad thing or an indicator of social recluse. What I said is I've seen this "exact attitude with individuals" (as in some individuals, not all.) For example, my daughter's kindergarten teacher lives with his parents, and I have absolutely no issue with it. However, I do know someone who is well into the…

You said it's a major explanation of the phenomena, based on your anecdotal experience.

Re: Pictures reveal the isolated lives of Japan’s social recluses (2018)

#54

Post by colmvp »

throwawayboise wrote: post #47
kiba wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is right here probably a major explanation for the whole phenomena. I have seen this exact attitude with individuals who are in their 30s and living with their parents. Something in their upbringing gave them this immense sense of worth but the world isn't rewarding them for the little work they do as much as they think it's worth. This is extremely presumptive and dismissive. Also living with your parents isn't…

> living with your parents isn't necessary an indicator of a social reclusve Assuming you mean living with your parents in their house, it pretty much is. It's different if you have an elderly parent living with you in your house. Anyone in his 30s and living with his parents is going to have constrained social opportunities unless he's some kind of royalty.

It's not uncommon for people to live with parents when they can so that they can save enough money for their future.

By the time my cousin got married, he was in his 30s and had lived at home all his life. He bought a condo immediately with his savings for him and his wife to move into.

My best friend lived at home until he paid off his student loans after which he saved enough for a down payment for a condo.

My other friend lived at home till her 30s, when she got married and moved in with her husband.

My other best friend is living at an apartment with his parents, and has a steady girlfriend as well as thriving businesses.

For some people I don't doubt living at home with your parents would be awful for development, but there's so many ways to live life that I would never generalize the outcomes without fully considering the circumstances.

Re: Pictures reveal the isolated lives of Japan’s social recluses (2018)

#55

Post by kiba »

throwawayboise wrote: post #47
kiba wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is right here probably a major explanation for the whole phenomena. I have seen this exact attitude with individuals who are in their 30s and living with their parents. Something in their upbringing gave them this immense sense of worth but the world isn't rewarding them for the little work they do as much as they think it's worth. This is extremely presumptive and dismissive. Also living with your parents isn't…

> living with your parents isn't necessary an indicator of a social reclusve Assuming you mean living with your parents in their house, it pretty much is. It's different if you have an elderly parent living with you in your house. Anyone in his 30s and living with his parents is going to have constrained social opportunities unless he's some kind of royalty.

Assuming you mean living with your parents in their house, it pretty much is. It's different if you have an elderly parent living with you in your house.

Anyone in his 30s and living with his parents is going to have constrained social opportunities unless he's some kind of royalty.

If you earn money, then you're independent enough. That's enough for me. It's a bit embarrassing to admit that you live with your parents, but ultimately so what?

Re: Pictures reveal the isolated lives of Japan’s social recluses (2018)

#56

Post by falcolas »

throwawayboise wrote: post #49
paulryanrogers wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article's description of cultural pressures on young men seems crushing. One must work obscene hours, never lose face, represent the family at all times, and support a family on one salary.

Most men are happiest when they are working hard and supporting their family. I'm not sure why this is seen as crushing pressure.

Japanese culture is not American or European culture. Salarymen, black companies, and such are much more common (even expected) in Japan.

Re: Pictures reveal the isolated lives of Japan’s social recluses (2018)

#57

Post by burntoutfire »

zwkrt wrote: post #29
sneak wrote: post #3

It's a bit interesting that people see this as something that needs "fixing". Is it because it's a psychological disorder? Is it because the parents don't want the financial burden? The pandemic has certainly recently shown me the upsides of withdrawing totally from society. It's not for me (I'm antisocial, not asocial) but I can see why some would prefer it.

Up until approximately 100-200 years ago (99.999% of humanity’s existence) it was a possibility in most of the world to retreat into complete wilderness and live as a hermit. Now there’s nowhere left to go. We have wilderness but it is owned. We have recluses but they have SSNs and tax burdens and fingerprints. A person who becomes detached from society is put in a mental institution. The result is a kind of cultural…

> it was a possibility in most of the world to retreat into complete wilderness and live as a hermit.

You can still f off into Canadian, Siberian, Amazonian wilderness without the government or anyone else caring about that.

Re: Pictures reveal the isolated lives of Japan’s social recluses (2018)

#58

Post by graeme »

sneak wrote: post #11
graeme wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wikipedia mentions the 80/50 problem. At some point the Hikkomori will be 50, and their parents, their sole means of support, will be 80. The Hikkomori are not capable of supporting themselves and will run into trouble. I also expect there are health effects to lifelong withdrawal from all social contact and from not leaving one’s room. We’re not meant to totally avoid touch and eye contact and movement.

> We’re not meant to totally avoid touch and eye contact and movement. Meant by whom? Perhaps you aren't, but to make that claim for others is to fundamentally deny them their agency, as if they are mentally incompetent. I don't think these people are, for the most part, mentally incompetent.

Solitary confinement is widely considered to be torture, and what studied of Hikkomori exist suggest they have more suicidal thoughts and psychiatric disorders than the average.

The former suggests need for social contact is in our genes. There is a reason monks had monasteries for their life of withdrawal: they still had others around.

There are rare exceptions, the eremetic monks, but overall Hikkomori do not seem content. They are perhaps more comfortable than they felt out in the world, but I strongly suspect they are in a local maximum and could live much more satisfying lives.

Re: Pictures reveal the isolated lives of Japan’s social recluses (2018)

#59

Post by luckylion »

ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #51
vsareto wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always wondered if you were a recluse but had an excellent diet/fitness routine that the social contact benefits for health would not matter anymore. It's actually the best possible scenario for getting extremely fit because you don't have a job or social obligations.

> " I've always wondered if you were a recluse but had an excellent diet/fitness routine that the social contact benefits for health would not matter anymore. " Solitary confinement in prisons is known to be detrimental to mental health so that seems most likely to be false.

That's not something the inmates choose though, they're being forced to be in solitary confinement.

Studies might not be ideal here. How many hermits participate in social studies run at universities?

Re: Pictures reveal the isolated lives of Japan’s social recluses (2018)

#60

Post by hi5eyes »

Bukhmanizer wrote: post #23

I’m glad the article mostly restrains itself from the “wacky Japan” angle, and states pretty flat out that a “rental sister” is pretty analogous to the role of a social worker. It’s weird that people marvel over “host” and “hostess” clubs in Japan, when I know of many restaurants in the US and Canada, where the main draw is that a pretty girl/guy will be nice to you for your time there. Is it the exact same thing? No…

>In the west, there’s a taboo about paying for social benefits

western internet culture may be changing this taboo, mainly thinking of twitch, onlyfans etc. the internet "simp" phenomenon. its still degenerate but not quite "taboo"

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