34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work • Hacker News Board

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#51

Post by toomuchtodo » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 5:31 PM UTC

benbristow wrote: post #44

toomuchtodo wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not a remote problem, that's a project management and communications problem. Physical proximity is no replacement for clearly communicated requirements/bug reports/product roadmaps as well as tribal knowledge (which should not be tribal but documented somewhere searchable and robustly accessible), but it makes a nice hack when everyone is required to be in the office.

Agreed on it being PM/Communications problems. Definitely easier in the office though. Another thing is that it's often harder to write your question/problem in text as a message, when in verbal communication it's a lot easier (personally, YMMV). But having to organise calls to get that verbal communication is a pain.

I would agree that sometimes a call or videoconf is necessary (which should be scheduled for only as much time is as absolutely necessary and the output of the meeting well documented), but it's good to flex the remote/async muscle to encourage communications best practices across an org. Communicating is a critical skill.

A lot of folks are used to being lazy intra communications in an org, and imho, that shouldn't be an excuse to dissuade remote work when the benefits are incredibly clear. If you suck at comms or management in a more flexible work arrangement environment (which is okay! to get better at something you must first suck at it), it's time to get better.

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#52

Post by nend » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 5:31 PM UTC

ptmcc wrote: post #20

I don't believe it. I do believe that 34% of polled workers said they would quit rather than return to the office, but I do not believe even a majority of them would actually go follow through on that threat. Especially if you filter out high paid/high job-security developers and similar people who might have the financial security to do so. People, particularly Americans, are shackled to their jobs for many reasons…

Well yes, but if you dig down to what the authors of the study said:

"1 in 3 professionals currently working from home would look for a new job if required to return to the office."

They're not saying 34% of workers are going to quit instead of returning to the office, just that they will consider it.

https://www.roberthalf.com/blog/management-tips/returning-to...

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#53

Post by Spivak » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 5:31 PM UTC

Alupis wrote: post #13

User23 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Conversely, if an employer isn't willing to let employees do a job remotely after having had a year to see that they're perfectly capable of doing so, they clearly have no attachment to their employees.

Or, perhaps they had a year to clearly see they're perfectly incapable of doing so. Not every office job is software engineering folks... Imagine trying to manage a warehouse remotely... or bounce ideas off each other in real time at a marketing agency... or any of the other normal jobs that thrive with in-person interaction. Not to mention, 34% is a minority... we can't force the other 66% to work remotely just beca…

But this isn't the argument that people are actually making. It's letting teams be mixed based on the preference of the individual employee.

If the work can be done outside of an office there is no reason for an employer to require it be done in an office.

It seems really weird after this last year to no respect for your employees preference on how they would like to do their work. "Hey Jim, I know you much prefer doing your job at home for reasons $x, $y, $z but I really like being able to walk over to your desk so either you come in or you're fired."

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#54

Post by spockz » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 5:32 PM UTC

benbristow wrote: post #26

Alupis wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, perhaps they had a year to clearly see they're perfectly incapable of doing so. Not every office job is software engineering folks... Imagine trying to manage a warehouse remotely... or bounce ideas off each other in real time at a marketing agency... or any of the other normal jobs that thrive with in-person interaction. Not to mention, 34% is a minority... we can't force the other 66% to work remotely just beca…

It's hard enough in software engineering IMHO. What used to be swivel in your chair and ask a colleague or going to whoever you need to speak to is now * Send a Slack message/email and wait an arbitrary amount of time for a response. * Organise a Skype/Teams/whatever call in a few hours time and feel guilty about it, as it feels rude to just ring someone as they could be occupied or busy. I spend a stupid amount of t…

> * Organise a Skype/Teams/whatever call in a few hours time and feel guilty about it, as it feels rude to just ring someone as they could be occupied or busy.

Why is it more rude to call someone on teams where they can just decline the call than to swivel in your chair and start talking to them?

If anything, I think etiquette has improved in our situation. No more in person interruptions or people just hovering at the edge of your vision to get attention. No more loudly conversing colleagues in the open plan office.

Instead we have lines dropped in chat or more carefully crafted emails for longer questions.

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#55

Post by briandear » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 5:32 PM UTC

Alupis wrote: post #13

User23 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Conversely, if an employer isn't willing to let employees do a job remotely after having had a year to see that they're perfectly capable of doing so, they clearly have no attachment to their employees.

Or, perhaps they had a year to clearly see they're perfectly incapable of doing so. Not every office job is software engineering folks... Imagine trying to manage a warehouse remotely... or bounce ideas off each other in real time at a marketing agency... or any of the other normal jobs that thrive with in-person interaction. Not to mention, 34% is a minority... we can't force the other 66% to work remotely just beca…

> we can't force the other 66% to work remotely just because a minority enjoy it.

That's not saying the other 66% wants to go back to the office, only that they wouldn't quit their job over it.

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#56

Post by cjpearson » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 5:32 PM UTC

nkozyra wrote: post #19

samr71 wrote: post #4

I personally would rather quit than stay remote indefinitely, I can tell you that.

Talking with various friends and people among my network I can say that it varies so much. Some people would prefer to never go in, some people (like myself) would prefer an office presence but no requirement to attend and others would prefer to eliminate remote work. I find this interesting because we tend to extrapolate our own thoughts and preferences to the general public. And this is kind of why working together…

I've seen a lot of variance too. There are people on both sides of the argument who feel strongly. Whichever direction a company chooses there are going to be a lot of unhappy employees.

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#57

Post by benbristow » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 5:32 PM UTC

MattGaiser wrote: post #39

benbristow wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard enough in software engineering IMHO. What used to be swivel in your chair and ask a colleague or going to whoever you need to speak to is now * Send a Slack message/email and wait an arbitrary amount of time for a response. * Organise a Skype/Teams/whatever call in a few hours time and feel guilty about it, as it feels rude to just ring someone as they could be occupied or busy. I spend a stupid amount of t…

> What used to be swivel in your chair and ask a colleague or going to whoever you need to speak to is now But your need for an instant answer often derails my work flow. I can get a lot more done now that I am not being interrupted as frequently and can address questions once I have wrapped up what I am doing or at least have time to write down where specifically I stopped.

Just asking this as a talking point.

Does a quick interruption that unblocks me and allows me to continue working outweigh allowing you to finish your thing first? Because maybe you're unblocked but I'm blocked by you now, and the thing that's actually blocking me. So only 1 person is able to work.

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#58

Post by marvin » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 5:32 PM UTC

Alupis wrote: post #13

User23 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Conversely, if an employer isn't willing to let employees do a job remotely after having had a year to see that they're perfectly capable of doing so, they clearly have no attachment to their employees.

Or, perhaps they had a year to clearly see they're perfectly incapable of doing so. Not every office job is software engineering folks... Imagine trying to manage a warehouse remotely... or bounce ideas off each other in real time at a marketing agency... or any of the other normal jobs that thrive with in-person interaction. Not to mention, 34% is a minority... we can't force the other 66% to work remotely just beca…

The article stated that 25% preferred a full-time office situation. That's also a minority.

And I don't think OP implied that the 66% who stated they wouldn't quit their jobs if forced to work on-site full time, be forced to work remotely. Half the people surveyed preferred a hybrid solution.

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#59

Post by sokoloff » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 5:33 PM UTC

Study is published by a staffing firm, who surveyed around 1000 people. It seems like the people who would respond to a staffing firm's survey might not be fully representative of the broader working population.

I did not expect to enjoy working from home, but I thoroughly do. I feel like I can be almost as effective, but I sure wouldn't quit over a return to the office. (And I sure wouldn't be reachable by a staffing firm to be surveyed.)

Re: 34% of remote workers would quit rather than return to full-time office work

#60

Post by 52-6F-62 » Wed, Apr 07, 2021, 5:33 PM UTC

Alupis wrote: post #13

User23 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Conversely, if an employer isn't willing to let employees do a job remotely after having had a year to see that they're perfectly capable of doing so, they clearly have no attachment to their employees.

Or, perhaps they had a year to clearly see they're perfectly incapable of doing so. Not every office job is software engineering folks... Imagine trying to manage a warehouse remotely... or bounce ideas off each other in real time at a marketing agency... or any of the other normal jobs that thrive with in-person interaction. Not to mention, 34% is a minority... we can't force the other 66% to work remotely just beca…

I don't think it's about forcing anyone to work remotely, it's about being allowed to continue and not being forced to go back to commute times and water coolers.

My employer is in an industry that thrived on in-person interactions (save for any field writers/photogs). They had no remote working policy prior to the pandemic for the bulk of the staff.

They have made a complete 180° change on that and acknowledged that there has been anything but a drop in productivity, and vast improvements in some areas. Remote working is going to be a first-class option going forward (at least looking that way for now). They closed two offices downtown Toronto; one at the Rogers building, and one in a heritage block on Queen E. They were landmark locations for highly visible brands centred around the city, lifestyle, society, and politics. (read: It was not a decision made lightly for the company)

Now, the company owns its own print operations and those, of course, stay on site. I'm in digital operations—we're now scattered around the GTHA. After I got sick last year I underwent a bit of a sea change in attitude: my partner and I bought a used car, packed up and moved to a beautiful heritage townhouse in a smaller, greener town from our sub-500 sq/ft shoebox-in-the-sky. I'll never move back into one of those, and rent for anything else has gone off the bloody rails.

There are a larger amount of remote opportunities than ever—I like my job and my employer, but I would consider switching if I was forced to move back into their remaining office in North York every day. As it is, I can make it in there by car in about an hour for the odd all-hands.