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Geeky Stats About Magic Mushrooms

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Re: Geeky Stats About Magic Mushrooms

#51

I wonder why won't some starving poor tiny pacific island legalize [some] drugs. They could probably make good money from drug tourism.

There is a not starving (though severely bankrupt) very small peninsula country on the atlantic that has not legalized, though "decriminalized" ALL drugs to measured success. That country is Portugal, which officially decriminalized all drugs nationwide in 2001. It is a very interesting data point in the argument over drug legalizations. Arguably it is the closest anyone has come to large scale legalization of drugs…

Very interesting. Is there some kind of [psychoactive] drug tourism there? Why isn't it as well known as Holland?

Re: Geeky Stats About Magic Mushrooms

#52
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brain damage from any of the activities I listed above (including car crashes) could manifest itself in any number of ways. And it's impossible to tell ahead of time what the long-term effects of such brain damage will be. I'm not really sure that knowledge of what can go wrong explains much about the different attitudes society at large has towards drug users vs people who engage in other risky activities (including…

That's a pretty weak argument. We know that there are certain situations in those sports that can cause brain damage, like getting hit on the head by a rock and lack of oxygen. We know them fairly well, and the majority of people avoid them successfully. With rock climbing or driving or scuba diving, it's an "It might happen to you, but if you avoid these extreme situations it won't" situation whereas with taking dru…

"With rock climbing or driving or scuba diving, it's an "It might happen to you, but if you avoid these extreme situations it won't" situation"

Except that there are no such guarantees. It could still happen, and it does happen all the time. These are not risk-free activities, even when performed with all reasonable care. Of course, there are more and less extreme ways to engage in these activities, just as there are more and less extreme ways to use drugs.

You could, for instance, drive really recklessly, speed, or drive drunk. You're exposing yourself to more risk this way. Likewise, you could dive in more dangerous waters, and expose yourself to more risk. There are also known dangerous drug combinations, like mixing opiates and alcohol and going swimming. (In fact, mixing most any drug with alcohol is probably a bad idea, but there are some that are more dangerous than others.) And just as there are safer ways to drive or scuba dive, there are safer ways to use drugs.

Saying "we don't know what the fuck this thing does" is not really true for most drugs. Most drugs do have rather well defined effects. Of course, when you're dealing with black market drugs, the risk is greater that you won't get the drug you're expecting, or that it'll be cut with some other drug you weren't expecting, or that the dose will be different from what you expected, but there are ways to mitigate these risks. And not all illegal drugs need come from the black market. There are legal sources of illegal drugs, paradoxical though it may sound.

The other interesting thing is that not all drugs that are illegal in one place are illegal in all other places (or times, for that matter). And there are plenty of legal and yet quite dangerous drugs (like alcohol and nicotine, not to mention a plethora of prescription and even over-the-counter drugs). So the legality or illegality of a given drug need not have much to do with the its danger. In fact, the scheduling (ie. "illegalization") of some drugs has often driven people to use more dangerous legal drugs.

Re: Geeky Stats About Magic Mushrooms

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, except that they should allow psychoactive drugs too and allow selling (while disallowing taking those out of the country).

Magic mushrooms were actually allowed and sold openly until just a couple of years ago. http://www.dutchamsterdam.nl/542-hallucinogenic-magic-mushro...

They were in most of Europe, certainly here in the UK not that long ago.

Re: Geeky Stats About Magic Mushrooms

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a not starving (though severely bankrupt) very small peninsula country on the atlantic that has not legalized, though "decriminalized" ALL drugs to measured success. That country is Portugal, which officially decriminalized all drugs nationwide in 2001. It is a very interesting data point in the argument over drug legalizations. Arguably it is the closest anyone has come to large scale legalization of drugs…

Very interesting. Is there some kind of [psychoactive] drug tourism there? Why isn't it as well known as Holland?

Because it's only legal to posses small quantities for personal use (about 10 days). Possession of bigger quantities has remained prohibited by Portuguese law, and criminal penalties are still applied to drug growers, dealers and traffickers. You cannot go into a coffeeshop and buy some weed as you do in netherlands so it doesn't make much sense to go there as a "drug" tourist.

Re: Geeky Stats About Magic Mushrooms

#55

There's a saying in drug development, that resonates in the context of this article: "the only difference between a drug and a poison... is the dose." Psilocybin, marijuana, and LSD should be decriminalized and approved for medicinal use across the US. Control, quality, and safety would be much improved over the recreational and black market dealings we are left with today--thus, invalidating much of the "war on drug…

The LD50 (lethal dose for 50% of the population) for psilocybin cubensis being consumed by a 150lbs person is 3015g (over 6 lbs!). A "high" dose is anything over an eighth of an ounce (~3.5 grams). That's quite a large difference between drug and poision!

Link: http://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_chemistry.s...

Re: Geeky Stats About Magic Mushrooms

#56
Is anyone else not eager to see these legalized? I'm very interested in psychedelics--and an occasional user--but I've seen what can happen when someone who shouldn't be taking them has a bad trip.

Sometimes, it's not even a matter of preparation. A friend and I decided that we wanted to experience a psychedelic. We spent the year prior to our experience reading trip reports and literature, listening to lectures, etc. and had seemingly done everything within reason to prepare. Yet when the moment came, my friend fought it with every ounce of his being and is still recovering from the anxiety this experience caused nearly two years ago.

The fact is, psychedelics are NOT for everybody. To get the positive effects this study reports requires a good deal of preparation, a proper set and setting, and a trusted sitter who can help right the ship if anxiety starts to creep in. Even then, there are those among us--like my friend--who are unable to let go of control and surrender themselves to the experience.

Certainly one can make the argument that legalization/regulation could provide greater controls over who swallows the pill and who doesn't, but I'm not sure that is true. On the other hand, it is unfortunate that something that can be so beneficial to an individual can at the same time be so destructive (referring to the legal consequences this time). But, the way it stands now, someone who is serious about pursuing this experience can grow the mushrooms themselves for relatively little cost and at relatively little risk (provided they don't sell to others).

The current situation (with perhaps some softer penalties against possession) of limited medical research and legally available spores seems to me satisfactory. Is it ideal? No, certainly not. But is it optimal, given the reality of politics, law, and our attitude towards "drugs"? Perhaps.

Re: Geeky Stats About Magic Mushrooms

#58
post #56

Is anyone else not eager to see these legalized? I'm very interested in psychedelics--and an occasional user--but I've seen what can happen when someone who shouldn't be taking them has a bad trip. Sometimes, it's not even a matter of preparation. A friend and I decided that we wanted to experience a psychedelic. We spent the year prior to our experience reading trip reports and literature, listening to lectures, etc…

> Sometimes, it's not even a matter of preparation. A friend and I decided that we wanted to experience a psychedelic. We spent the year prior to our experience reading trip reports and literature, listening to lectures, etc. and had seemingly done everything within reason to prepare.

I'd say you overdid it.

> The fact is, psychedelics are NOT for everybody.

Neither is alcohol. But if you are over 18, this should not be for the government to decide.

Re: Geeky Stats About Magic Mushrooms

#59
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Common nutmeg is more dangerous than most "hard" drugs...and we give it to children! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nutmeg#Psychoactivity_and_toxic...

This is just pure bullshit. While I'm all for drug decriminalization, I'm always stunned by the dumb half-truths its proponents come up with as justification. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myristicin > It should also be added that when consuming raw nutmeg, only 5-15% of the mass consumed is an essential oil fraction, of which only roughly 4% is myristicin,[9] indicating the amount present overall in the nut is from 0…

You have a funny way of disproving me.

"This is just pure bullshit."

Followed by a list of information about the dangerous psychoactive compound in nutmeg.

5-15 grams (on the low end) is not a lot of food item.

A teaspoon = about 4grams.

A tablespoon = about 14 grams.

Here's 64.9 grams for less than $5. http://www.amazon.com/Simply-Organic-Nutmeg-CERTIFIED-ORGANI...

From http://ntp.niehs.nih.gov/INDEX57DE.HTM?objectid=E88175E0-BDB...

"Ingestion of five or more grams of nutmeg causes acute nutmeg poisoning, which includes giddiness, hallucinations, and feelings of depersonalization. Symptoms usually appear three to six hours after ingestion of 1-3 whole nutmegs or 5-15 gm of the grated spice. Recovery usually occurs within 24 hours. Nevertheless, duration of action may extend beyond several days and even include death. /Nutmeg/ [Green RC, Jr; JAMA 171 (10): 1342-4 (1959); Painter JC et al; Clin Toxicol 4 (1): 1-4 (1971)] PEER REVIEWED"

So basically, somebody trying to repeat the cinnamon challenge, but with nutmeg, and ate a heaping tablespoon of the stuff would introduce a lethal dosage of the substance into their body.

So your argument is, because you personally only tap a little on your eggnog once a year, it's suddenly not a lethally toxic psychoactive substance in doses not much above the range that people might use in cooking?

http://homecooking.about.com/library/archive/blspice3.htm (recipes that all use at least 1/4 teaspoon of nutmeg)

Re: Geeky Stats About Magic Mushrooms

#60
post #58
post #56

Is anyone else not eager to see these legalized? I'm very interested in psychedelics--and an occasional user--but I've seen what can happen when someone who shouldn't be taking them has a bad trip. Sometimes, it's not even a matter of preparation. A friend and I decided that we wanted to experience a psychedelic. We spent the year prior to our experience reading trip reports and literature, listening to lectures, etc…

> Sometimes, it's not even a matter of preparation. A friend and I decided that we wanted to experience a psychedelic. We spent the year prior to our experience reading trip reports and literature, listening to lectures, etc. and had seemingly done everything within reason to prepare. I'd say you overdid it. > The fact is, psychedelics are NOT for everybody. Neither is alcohol. But if you are over 18, this should not…

>I'd say you overdid it.

That is certainly possible. I've often thought that was true for my friend (who would read worst case scenario trip reports so he could know what he was "dealing with"). The year of preparation wasn't intentional actually, we were just unable to get our hands on any and weren't in a position (living on campus) to be growing ourselves.

>if you are over 18, this should not be for the government to decide.

In an ideal world, I would agree with this. But I think the reality of the situation is that, unless it accompanied some broader systemic change, if psychedelics alone (or just mushrooms) were legalized and nothing else changed, they would be immediately abused and the media would cover sensational stories of people hurting themselves, driving under the influence, freaking out, etc. Take salvia as an example.

Again, I agree with you in principle. I just think pragmatically it's not that simple. Perhaps legalization would be better, perhaps not.

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