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An open letter in support of RMS being reinstated by the FSF

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Re: An open letter in support of RMS being reinstated by the FSF

#51

Post by happytoexplain »

gentleman11 wrote: post #6
majkinetor wrote: post #3

For those that are new to this topic this is quite a good read: - https://www.wetheweb.org/post/cancel-we-the-web

Does anybody else find it a little scary to comment on this topic in case they get called out and targeted as well? The well written link posted to “wetheweb” discusses this a bit. Some quotes: > According to the Atlantic, a full 80 percent of Americans believe that “political correctness is a problem in our country.” While today some smear the free speech movement as a “racist dog-whistle” or a “far-right talking po…

>a full 80 percent of Americans believe that “political correctness is a problem in our country.” While today some smear the free speech movement as a “racist dog-whistle” or a “far-right talking point,” it turns out the numbers don’t fit that narrative.

This seems irrational. For example, I both "believe that political correctness is a problem in our country" and believe that "the free speech movement", in the modern context, is composed largely of "racist dog-whistles" and "far-right talking points". They aren't mutually exclusive opinions, yet the author writes as though they obviously are. Besides believing that "political correctness" has silenced important discussions, I also believe it's only one example of many forms of irrational side-taking and hatred that have silenced important discussions, committed across the political spectrum. It seems like the author is taking advantage of the instantly recognizable noun "political correctness" as a way to package a biased opinion that purposefully ignores closely related things that are damaging discussion and civility just as dramatically.

Re: An open letter in support of RMS being reinstated by the FSF

#52

Post by [deleted] »

happytoexplain wrote: post #46
gentleman11 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does anybody else find it a little scary to comment on this topic in case they get called out and targeted as well? The well written link posted to “wetheweb” discusses this a bit. Some quotes: > According to the Atlantic, a full 80 percent of Americans believe that “political correctness is a problem in our country.” While today some smear the free speech movement as a “racist dog-whistle” or a “far-right talking po…

>somebody is flagging this story to keep people from even discussing the topic. This applies to your entire comment, but the quoted line is most salient: Be careful not to fall into the victimized underdog mentality. There are legitimate concerns on both sides here, but there is a ton of noise in the form of pointing to imagined persons/crowds and accusing them of persecution . For example, submissions are frequently…

[deleted]

Re: An open letter in support of RMS being reinstated by the FSF

#53

Post by happytoexplain »

open-paren wrote: post #49
richrichardsson wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> political correctness has silenced important discussions our society needs to have It would be interesting to know what are these "important discussions". > 58% of Americans believe the political climate prevents them from sharing their own political beliefs I don't think it literally prevents them, more like it makes them scared to share their political beliefs for fear of being called out when those are not "acce…

Sure. During dinner with my in-laws (siblings and parents), my MIL brought up the now-removed phrase from the manifesto on BlackLivesMatter.com that says "We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another...". She and the rest of the table interpreted it as "BLM wants to abolish the family as a soc…

Is this an example of political correctness silencing you? I'm honestly asking, because it's interesting. Traditionally, the phrase refers to being "sensitive", so e.g. your opinion would be the politically correct opinion, and theirs would be the "not afraid to hurt feelings" opinion. But if you take the phrase more literally, it would refer to the fallacy of judging what is "correct" according solely to the politics of the observer - regardless of what those politics are. In which case, yes, their political correctness is suppressing you (and if you had treated them the same way, your political correctness would have been suppressing them at the same time).

Re: An open letter in support of RMS being reinstated by the FSF

#54

Post by smoldesu »

gentleman11 wrote: post #6
majkinetor wrote: post #3

For those that are new to this topic this is quite a good read: - https://www.wetheweb.org/post/cancel-we-the-web

Does anybody else find it a little scary to comment on this topic in case they get called out and targeted as well? The well written link posted to “wetheweb” discusses this a bit. Some quotes: > According to the Atlantic, a full 80 percent of Americans believe that “political correctness is a problem in our country.” While today some smear the free speech movement as a “racist dog-whistle” or a “far-right talking po…

It's definitely double standards for this to be flagged when the exact opposite of this was posted yesterday without a flag.

Re: An open letter in support of RMS being reinstated by the FSF

#55

Post by Corazoor »

NelsonMinar wrote: post #27
smoldesu wrote: post #22

As little as I like to do this, I think it's important to bring up the "autism" topic, because I see way too many autistic programmers being thrown under the bus for stuff like this. To start, the three smartest programmers I personally know are autistic, and all of them struggle to make sound judgement calls at the drop of a hat. I've seen them lambasted in IRC channels for saying stupid things or slipping up a func…

https://dev.to/baweaver/the-myth-of-the-autistic-jerk-3kjl

The article misses the point the grand parent is making: People with autism lack (to varying degree) the ability to decode social clues and - based on that - behave in socially agreeable ways.

Since the other side (non-autists) can usually not distinguish between disregarding social norms on purpose (being a jerk) or by accident (autism), autists are often judged as jerks. Escpecially since the high frequency of "social fuckups" rules out "normal" human mistakes.

Re: An open letter in support of RMS being reinstated by the FSF

#56

Post by smoldesu »

japhib wrote: post #30
junon wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So we should be shameful for basing conclusions on what non-anecdotal information we've been exposed to? I've had such encounters with someone many on HN would know. I don't hold anyone accountable for mentioning their name or talking nicely about them because how could they possibly know what happened behind closed doors?

When a person has a critical mass of accusations of sexual assaults, AND they are open about their support (or at least sympathy) for a well-known rapist and pedophile, the accusations start to become more and more plausible.

I must be out of the loop on the sexual assault accusations. Is this one of those Twitter-exclusive stories I hear so much about?

Re: An open letter in support of RMS being reinstated by the FSF

#57

Post by happytoexplain »

junon wrote: post #13
NelsonMinar wrote: post #7

Shame on everyone who signs this letter. I personally know two women who've been sexually harassed by this creep. He has no place in leadership.

So we should be shameful for basing conclusions on what non-anecdotal information we've been exposed to? I've had such encounters with someone many on HN would know. I don't hold anyone accountable for mentioning their name or talking nicely about them because how could they possibly know what happened behind closed doors?

You can certainly make an argument that there is not enough information and/or it is not of reliable enough provenance to accept the consequences X of action over the consequences Y of inaction. But you've simply stated that it is so by inhospitably rewording the parent post.

Re: An open letter in support of RMS being reinstated by the FSF

#58

Post by phasnox »

smoldesu wrote: post #22

As little as I like to do this, I think it's important to bring up the "autism" topic, because I see way too many autistic programmers being thrown under the bus for stuff like this. To start, the three smartest programmers I personally know are autistic, and all of them struggle to make sound judgement calls at the drop of a hat. I've seen them lambasted in IRC channels for saying stupid things or slipping up a func…

I'm trying to fight my own bias here, but.. I really don't know what to think.

On one hand I'm totally against cancel culture for things like:

- How you voted(e.g. Trump/Biden)

- Your political views on any subject

On the other hand, Stallman has called for the killing of babies with Down Syndrome.

So, could I associate with someone like that?

Could I comfortably work with someone that(for example) calls for the killing of babies if they where jewish, black etc.

Re: An open letter in support of RMS being reinstated by the FSF

#59

Post by CodeGlitch »

phasnox wrote: post #58
smoldesu wrote: post #22

As little as I like to do this, I think it's important to bring up the "autism" topic, because I see way too many autistic programmers being thrown under the bus for stuff like this. To start, the three smartest programmers I personally know are autistic, and all of them struggle to make sound judgement calls at the drop of a hat. I've seen them lambasted in IRC channels for saying stupid things or slipping up a func…

I'm trying to fight my own bias here, but.. I really don't know what to think. On one hand I'm totally against cancel culture for things like: - How you voted(e.g. Trump/Biden) - Your political views on any subject On the other hand, Stallman has called for the killing of babies with Down Syndrome. So, could I associate with someone like that? Could I comfortably work with someone that(for example) calls for the kill…

> On the other hand, Stallman has called for the killing of babies with Down Syndrome.

Has he though? Has he actioned this idea, or was it just something he blogged about amongst 1000's of other thoughts that floated through his head?

One of my life lessons I think is worth pointing out, is that people's actions are far more important than what they say. And this is the problem with modern western society: someone says something stupid and everyone jumps on them as an opportunity to further their own cause.

So yes you can associate with someone like this, unless they DO something terrible.

Re: An open letter in support of RMS being reinstated by the FSF

#60

Post by majkinetor »

smoldesu wrote: post #54
gentleman11 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does anybody else find it a little scary to comment on this topic in case they get called out and targeted as well? The well written link posted to “wetheweb” discusses this a bit. Some quotes: > According to the Atlantic, a full 80 percent of Americans believe that “political correctness is a problem in our country.” While today some smear the free speech movement as a “racist dog-whistle” or a “far-right talking po…

It's definitely double standards for this to be flagged when the exact opposite of this was posted yesterday without a flag.

It totally shows that 'HN admins' are exactly the type of people that support cancel culture. Not really an eye opening.
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