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The virus that causes the common cold can effectively boot the Covid virus out

bbc.com

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Re: The virus that causes the common cold can effectively boot the Covid virus out

#51

Post by andruby »

anonymouswacker wrote: post #46
mrkramer wrote: post #5

Another reason I personally would not like to get vaccinated. Nature and evolution solve all problems sooner or later.

I share your skepticism. Vaccines are a relatively new technology, with various buggy vaccines coming out that were actually more harmful than helpful. Time will tell if the mRNA "Vaccine" will be a net positive. I am totally okay with other people injecting whatever they want in their bodies, as long as they don't try to make me do it, too. I would rather die of natural causes than a rushed-to-market product.

What do you mean "Vaccines are a relatively new technology"?

We've had vaccines since 1796 [0] when Edward Jenner developed a vaccine for smallpox, a terrible disease that we fully eradicated thanks to vaccination. A disease that you and me don't have to worry about because of vaccines.

(Likewise for Cholera, Tetanus, Polio, Tuberculosis, Meningitis, etc)

Also, trains, cars, planes, cameras, lightbulbs and every invention of Edison are newer technologies than vaccines.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_human_vaccines

Re: The virus that causes the common cold can effectively boot the Covid virus out

#52

Post by shadowofneptune »

WhompingWindows wrote: post #44
insickness wrote: post #2

"From the moment the invaders arrived, breathed our air, ate and drank, they were doomed. They were undone, destroyed, after all of man's weapons and devices had failed, by the tiniest creatures that God in his wisdom put upon this earth. By the toll of a billion deaths, man had earned his immunity, his right to survive among this planet's infinite organisms. And that right is ours against all challenges. For neither…

"the tiniest creatures God in his wisdom put upon this earth" The writing is nice but flawed. Since War of the Worlds, we have advanced tremendously and no longer need intelligent design or creation myths to explain microorganisms. Reproducible, testable science demonstrates that in the primordial oceans, self-replicating molecules which were slightly better at self-replicating produced globules of matter capable of…

HG Wells would have been well aware of this, being an athiest of a kind we'd consider close to New Athiesm nowadays.

Re: The virus that causes the common cold can effectively boot the Covid virus out

#53

Post by james4k »

mrkramer wrote: post #10
hef19898 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "later" part is the problem so.

I mean it is natural selection if I'm weak I will die if I'm not I will pass my genes to my kids. That's how we evolved to the level of biological machine that human body is.

Natural selection gave us the social structures that allow you to buy your cold cuts and quietly hoard your wealth so that you don't have to face an ounce of real hardship in your life.

Re: The virus that causes the common cold can effectively boot the Covid virus out

#54

Post by codeulike »

timr wrote: post #45
WhompingWindows wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You haven't mentioned social behavioral change in your speculation about the decimated 2020-2021 flu season. I'd wager that has a very large part in why the flu hasn't spread: everyone is socially distanced, remote, masked, extra hygienic, and extra aware of illness.

I didn't mention it because it's not addressed by this article, which is specifically about competitive inhibition. That said, if you're going to claim that all of these things we have done have eliminated the flu, you should take at least a few moments to reflect on the fact that they have done ~nothing to rhinovirus.

Flu has an R0 of about 1.3, Rhinovirus has an R0 of around 2.7, and Covid is estimated to have an R0 of 2.7 or higher. So it makes sense that the measures we have taken have stopped the flu but not stopped covid or rhinovirus.

Sources: https://www.qps.com/2020/10/05/covid-19-versus-the-seasonal-... https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S246804271... https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1891

Re: The virus that causes the common cold can effectively boot the Covid virus out

#55

Post by quonn »

mrkramer wrote: post #10
hef19898 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "later" part is the problem so.

I mean it is natural selection if I'm weak I will die if I'm not I will pass my genes to my kids. That's how we evolved to the level of biological machine that human body is.

What strength is there in being able to resist COVID-19 specifically, which is just one arbitrary sickness out of many that can still arise? One that didn‘t even exist until recently?

Strength and weakness are completely dependent on the environment and we are shaping that environment, for example by vaccinating.

Re: The virus that causes the common cold can effectively boot the Covid virus out

#56

Post by otabdeveloper4 »

itsmeamario wrote: post #12
mrkramer wrote: post #5

Another reason I personally would not like to get vaccinated. Nature and evolution solve all problems sooner or later.

Tell that to the dinosaurs.

Pretty sure dinosaurs didn't die from Covid.

(But it's a good theory, who really knows, amirite?)

Re: The virus that causes the common cold can effectively boot the Covid virus out

#57

Post by the_af »

mrkramer wrote: post #10
hef19898 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "later" part is the problem so.

I mean it is natural selection if I'm weak I will die if I'm not I will pass my genes to my kids. That's how we evolved to the level of biological machine that human body is.

> I mean it is natural selection if I'm weak I will die if I'm not I will pass my genes to my kids.

That's not how natural selection works.

Re: The virus that causes the common cold can effectively boot the Covid virus out

#58

Post by timr »

codeulike wrote: post #54
timr wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't mention it because it's not addressed by this article, which is specifically about competitive inhibition. That said, if you're going to claim that all of these things we have done have eliminated the flu, you should take at least a few moments to reflect on the fact that they have done ~nothing to rhinovirus.

Flu has an R0 of about 1.3, Rhinovirus has an R0 of around 2.7, and Covid is estimated to have an R0 of 2.7 or higher. So it makes sense that the measures we have taken have stopped the flu but not stopped covid or rhinovirus. Sources: https://www.qps.com/2020/10/05/covid-19-versus-the-seasonal-... https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S246804271... https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1891

You are leaning way too hard on point estimates of R0. The way people estimate R0 is noisy, and the error bars on these estimates are significant. It's fairly pointless to take any two papers and compare the values as if they're precise.

This literature review has estimates of R0 for flu running from 1.06-3.4, and rhinovirus running from 1.2-1.83:

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.02.04.20020404v...

Given the uncertainties involved, these ranges are effectively identical, with flu maybe being a bit more contagious.

Re: The virus that causes the common cold can effectively boot the Covid virus out

#59

Post by mrkramer »

meowface wrote: post #11
mrkramer wrote: post #5

Another reason I personally would not like to get vaccinated. Nature and evolution solve all problems sooner or later.

>However, Covid would be able to cause an infection again once the cold had passed and the immune response calmed down. >Dr Murcia said: "Vaccination, plus hygiene measures, plus the interactions between viruses could lower the incidence of Sars-CoV-2 heavily, but the maximum effect will come from vaccination." Vaccines are an end product of nature and evolution, too, and are much more reliable than hoping you always…

>Vaccines are an end product of nature and evolution, too, and are much more reliable than hoping you always happen to get infected with rhinovirus near the same time you're exposed to SARS-CoV-2.

I agree with you but how safe is mRNA vaccine in the long term? I would rather take "classical" vaccine.

Re: The virus that causes the common cold can effectively boot the Covid virus out

#60

Post by corobo »

WhompingWindows wrote: post #44
insickness wrote: post #2

"From the moment the invaders arrived, breathed our air, ate and drank, they were doomed. They were undone, destroyed, after all of man's weapons and devices had failed, by the tiniest creatures that God in his wisdom put upon this earth. By the toll of a billion deaths, man had earned his immunity, his right to survive among this planet's infinite organisms. And that right is ours against all challenges. For neither…

"the tiniest creatures God in his wisdom put upon this earth" The writing is nice but flawed. Since War of the Worlds, we have advanced tremendously and no longer need intelligent design or creation myths to explain microorganisms. Reproducible, testable science demonstrates that in the primordial oceans, self-replicating molecules which were slightly better at self-replicating produced globules of matter capable of…

The writing is nice because it's nicely written. It's fiction, Wells was a fiction author.

Give the dude a break on the athiest rant, he's been dead half a century.

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