My Dad Published Lolita • Hacker News Board

Re: My Dad Published Lolita

#51

Post by devwastaken » Sat, Mar 20, 2021, 3:36 PM UTC

Duennepaper wrote: post #23

nanoscopic wrote: post #6

The actual article title is "How Would the Publishing World Respond to Lolita Today?" The title here is a small bit from the article. Unless the submitter here is the author I don't think it's appropriate to link this article under this title. The article consists of the story of how Lolita was published in the US mixed with background on the political setting of the era it was published in. The overall claim of the…

You might sound like someone who doesn't understand 'freedom of speech'. This does not allow you to do whatever you want. In germany for example it is written like this: "These rights shall find their limits in the provisions of general laws, in provisions for the protection of young persons, and in the right to personal honour." And its not different in the USA, you have limitations as well as the general good is mo…

For something to be wrong you have to prove a harm. Limitations to speech are because the harm of that speech weighs more than the chilling effect of suppressing it.

Fictional stories and images on the internet have no relationship with reality. There are no victims, there is no one harmed. You don't have to like the content, that is fine, but there is no good argument about bad morals or government intervention unless you're proving actual harm.

Re: My Dad Published Lolita

#52

Post by grey-area » Sat, Mar 20, 2021, 4:08 PM UTC

kayodelycaon wrote: post #42

grey-area wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a remarkable story on many levels. It's also very disturbing, as it manages to make you feel sympathy for an odious character. I did end up wondering how Nabokov could so completely imagine this world and this character, which was also troubling. I don't think anyone is ready to read this as a child, not because it is going to corrupt children (who are routinely exposed to exactly this sort of manipulation in t…

> I did end up wondering how Nabokov could so completely imagine this world and this character, which was also troubling. As a writer, I have an extremely vivid imagination. Same with my friends who are writers. We all joke that our Google searches have us on every FBI watchlist that exist and a few that don’t. The same goes with many artists. Embracing creativity involves some degree of getting rid of self-censorshi…

Have you read this book?

Every reader has their own interpretation of a text and the author's intent. Personally, looking back on Lolita I can say I'm a little uncomfortable with the level of empathy and identification the writer shows with Humbert Humbert, but I know the intention is to discomfit the reader by making them identify with a horrible character, so...

Re: My Dad Published Lolita

#53

Post by grey-area » Sat, Mar 20, 2021, 4:09 PM UTC

mbg721 wrote: post #44

BayAreaEscapee wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My father reads voraciously. Whenever we talked about a book I was assigned in high school, he would say, "Literature is wasted on the young." Now I understand what he meant and I agree with him. I understand so much more of literature now that I am well into adulthood.

I wonder sometimes if high-school English classes should use mid-level literary works for training, and leave the best ones to be appreciated later.

I think it's good to be exposed to them and at least aware of them as you grow up.

Certain things like Shakespeare I'd contend will appeal at least on a surface level to children too. Something like Lolita not so much.

Re: My Dad Published Lolita

#54

Post by slibhb » Sat, Mar 20, 2021, 4:42 PM UTC

grey-area wrote: post #52

kayodelycaon wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I did end up wondering how Nabokov could so completely imagine this world and this character, which was also troubling. As a writer, I have an extremely vivid imagination. Same with my friends who are writers. We all joke that our Google searches have us on every FBI watchlist that exist and a few that don’t. The same goes with many artists. Embracing creativity involves some degree of getting rid of self-censorshi…

Have you read this book? Every reader has their own interpretation of a text and the author's intent. Personally, looking back on Lolita I can say I'm a little uncomfortable with the level of empathy and identification the writer shows with Humbert Humbert, but I know the intention is to discomfit the reader by making them identify with a horrible character, so...

> I know the intention is to discomfit the reader by making them identify with a horrible character, so...

That's not the intent of the author. Nabokov has absolutely no moral or social points to make.

I didn't realize this until I read Eugene Onegin, which I take as the genesis of Nabokov's general perspective. Onegin is funny and ironic while still being emotionally affecting. Nabokov is much more in the "art for art's sake" camp than most people today are comfortable with.

Re: My Dad Published Lolita

#55

Post by nightowl_games » Sat, Mar 20, 2021, 4:45 PM UTC

at_a_remove wrote: post #45

I would also like to tackle Lolita again, possibly through an annotated text, but I have a particular focus: I am uneasy with narrator unreliability. The difficulty I have with it is that you can use it almost anywhere to justify anything. Star Wars and Superman ? Perhaps there are two Kansas farmboys named Luke and Clark next to one another in an asylum, living out their fantasies, and all we see is the fantasy they…

Chuck Palahniuk takes this to the next level. I agree that it is kinda frustrating. I think of the novel then as more of a tour of a mind, and not as a historical record of some sequence of occurrences. Besides, I prefer non-fiction for the latter style.

Re: My Dad Published Lolita

#56

Post by Animats » Sat, Mar 20, 2021, 4:59 PM UTC

mellosouls wrote: post #20

Actual title: How Would the Publishing World Respond to Lolita Today?

It's hard to imagine someone reviving Gigi[1] today. That was a Broadway musical (1973) and a movie (1958).

"Thank Heaven For Little Girls: [2]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigi_%28musical%29

[2] https://youtu.be/2TqSyvdqn9c

Re: My Dad Published Lolita

#57

Post by grey-area » Sat, Mar 20, 2021, 5:02 PM UTC

slibhb wrote: post #54

grey-area wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you read this book? Every reader has their own interpretation of a text and the author's intent. Personally, looking back on Lolita I can say I'm a little uncomfortable with the level of empathy and identification the writer shows with Humbert Humbert, but I know the intention is to discomfit the reader by making them identify with a horrible character, so...

> I know the intention is to discomfit the reader by making them identify with a horrible character, so... That's not the intent of the author. Nabokov has absolutely no moral or social points to make. I didn't realize this until I read Eugene Onegin, which I take as the genesis of Nabokov's general perspective. Onegin is funny and ironic while still being emotionally affecting. Nabokov is much more in the "art for a…

Can you recommend a good english translation? I've always wanted to read that poem.

But, you're citing a book by Pushkin (or the anti-hero within?) as illustrative of Nabokov's worldview? While he affected amused disdain I think Nabokov did care about the world. Doesn't Onegin too?

I think it's hard to square writing a book about a manipulative child abuser with being utterly disinterested in moral or social issues, because the book probes deeply into both (even if it is a little fantastical and hyper-real). I agree Nabokov has a very dry, aristocratic and distant style, but he wouldn't write about such things if he didn't want to provoke debate. Art has meaning and his has a lot more depth than surface. His position is of course very ambiguous but there is a lot of empathy for Humbert in Lolita, which is partly why it is so entrancing and discomfiting.

Re: My Dad Published Lolita

#58

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Mar 20, 2021, 5:03 PM UTC

Duennepaper wrote: post #24

nanoscopic wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alright. This is a fair point. I go way out of my way to discourage underage visitors to the erotica website I run, and I do agree that there is tremendous sensitivity in the current era towards the notion of anything sexual involving children. Despite that, I don't think such sensitivity is unreasonable. I do believe that children are sexual from quite an early age, and that that should be accepted and encouraged fr…

"I do believe that children are sexual from quite an early age, and that that should be accepted and encouraged from a sexual wellness perspective." wtf?

[deleted]

Re: My Dad Published Lolita

#59

Post by hctaw » Sat, Mar 20, 2021, 5:03 PM UTC

nanoscopic wrote: post #6

The actual article title is "How Would the Publishing World Respond to Lolita Today?" The title here is a small bit from the article. Unless the submitter here is the author I don't think it's appropriate to link this article under this title. The article consists of the story of how Lolita was published in the US mixed with background on the political setting of the era it was published in. The overall claim of the…

Lolita isn't erotica, which puts this in a different context. This is like comparing BDSM pornography to rape scenes in film. The latter is going to have a different audience and intent and might be more controversial to ratings agencies and production companies.

Re: My Dad Published Lolita

#60

Post by alcover » Sat, Mar 20, 2021, 5:34 PM UTC

epx wrote: post #46

I liked Lolita because it was written from the point of view of the perpetrator. Can’t remember many other examples - “The Scarf” from Robert Bloch is one. I have doubts it would be published nowadays, too.

I believe Bukowski made such a novel. Don't know the title.