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Engineer Converts Used Van into Mobile Laundromat, Offers Free Loads to Homeless

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Re: Engineer Converts Used Van into Mobile Laundromat, Offers Free Loads to Homeless

#51

Post by ruined »

xhrpost wrote: post #38
someperson wrote: post #8

It's sad that one of the most richest places on Earth (the San Francisco Bay Area) is unable to house, feed, clothe and provide drug/alcohol/mental health treatment to a mere 10,000 homeless people. I know homelessness is more than "houselessness", but it seems like a pretty simple problem to solve. Even considering that other states bus their homeless to Calfornia, fixing the 600,000 who sleep outside (and the 1.5 m…

This seems to be a common theme, that these problems are easily solved with just a few extra dollars. I used to subscribe to this conclusion thinking government/people just didn't care. Then I found out NYC spends $3billion on the homeless problem every year! Yes you read that right, billion with a B [1]. Granted our numbers are a bit bigger, around 80k [2]. But if you think 10k could easily be solved in SF, then 80k…

3 billion for 80k people is enough to give everyone a on that list a living stipend and a dedicated full-time staff. the money is being used for something else.

Re: Engineer Converts Used Van into Mobile Laundromat, Offers Free Loads to Homeless

#52

Post by foxyv »

devoutsalsa wrote: post #6
kwhitefoot wrote: post #5

Good for him. It must be a great boon to homeless people to have clean clothes; I know that I would feel very dispirited if I could not wear clean clothes on top of the already horrible situation of being homeless. But how come there are so many homeless people in the richest country in the world?

Because Americans don't have a culture of taking care of each other. They rely on the government to do it, government doesn't always want to, and the citizens don't demand that government does it. Source: am American & formerly homeless

Japan seems to do pretty well. There seems to be a culture there that the person above is talking about. But far more important is they allow the kind of hostels and low cost housing that has been regulated out of existence in a lot of modern countries and cities. For instance, cyber cafes and capsule hotels which are as cheap as $10 a night are extremely popular with the poorest Japanese.

However if I were expecting to be homeless soon I would wish to be in Finland.

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2019/jun/03/its-a-miracle...

Re: Engineer Converts Used Van into Mobile Laundromat, Offers Free Loads to Homeless

#53

Post by mdip »

pwgentleman wrote: post #10
someperson wrote: post #8

It's sad that one of the most richest places on Earth (the San Francisco Bay Area) is unable to house, feed, clothe and provide drug/alcohol/mental health treatment to a mere 10,000 homeless people. I know homelessness is more than "houselessness", but it seems like a pretty simple problem to solve. Even considering that other states bus their homeless to Calfornia, fixing the 600,000 who sleep outside (and the 1.5 m…

Most problems seem pretty simple until one actively tries to solve them. One thing that _is_ actually simple is simply criticizing. I would argue that a lot more good has been done by individuals that decided to "do something about it" that big government initiatives.

  > I would argue that a lot more good has been done by individuals that decided to "do something about it" that big government initiatives.
You couldn't be more right.

"It's amazing to me in a country as rich as ours", "In a city with the wealth of San Francisco", etc... Check your calendar. How many of us did something, last year, anything (beyond voting/picketing/"complaining") that directly helped this problem?

Hell, how many of us gave even $100 to an organization helping the homeless? How many of us even did the basic research to find a suitable organization to donate to (rather than just tossing that money at a charity run like a big government initiative)? There was a movement a while back to get people used to the idea of spending $4.00 for an app (you spend that much on a cup of coffee!). We have tons of government initiatives to help with poverty/homelessness. Upset that too much of our taxes are spent on war? Your donation is tax deductible. So tossing some money at a homeless support organization results in you indirectly re-balancing things. Less of your money supports things you don't and the money you've moved away from things you "do support" is being used more efficiently toward that support.

Re: Engineer Converts Used Van into Mobile Laundromat, Offers Free Loads to Homeless

#54

Post by skeeter2020 »

devoutsalsa wrote: post #6
kwhitefoot wrote: post #5

Good for him. It must be a great boon to homeless people to have clean clothes; I know that I would feel very dispirited if I could not wear clean clothes on top of the already horrible situation of being homeless. But how come there are so many homeless people in the richest country in the world?

Because Americans don't have a culture of taking care of each other. They rely on the government to do it, government doesn't always want to, and the citizens don't demand that government does it. Source: am American & formerly homeless

this is a relatively new phenomenon; in the past we had a lot more benevolent and faith based organizations that we've displaced with government services. Far less people a active members of churches and nobody joins the elks, shriners, knights of columbus, etc. anymore that I know. We're also far more transient and have moved to big cities in huge numbers. None of these things encourage the community and connectivity that caring for each other demands.

Re: Engineer Converts Used Van into Mobile Laundromat, Offers Free Loads to Homeless

#55

Post by mdip »

wintermutestwin wrote: post #42
pwgentleman wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most problems seem pretty simple until one actively tries to solve them. One thing that _is_ actually simple is simply criticizing. I would argue that a lot more good has been done by individuals that decided to "do something about it" that big government initiatives.

I wonder if individuals stepping up decreases or increases the chance that government will solve problems that are clearly systemic in nature (and thus the responsibility of government to resolve). Is charity making it easier for governments to shirk their responsibilities?

  > clearly systemic in nature
It's surprising to me how many people believe this. Are there systemic problems? Sure. Is the only solution to solve these? I hope not. I think some would like to convince the world that this is required. I'd love to see some good, practical, options that have been tried and have been successful, but so far capitalism appears to be the one that involves the least death/suffering.

Having been involved in charities, and having witnessed the destruction that a well meaning government program can bring, I'm not sure that even if charity is making it easier for governments to shirk their responsibilities that it would really be a bad thing. That's not coming from the position of "Big Government Bad(tm)" but rather a practical one -- at least as far as America is concerned, most of the money comes from Washington and it doesn't come without strings attached. It is the least efficient way to pay for something, and they are operating in a vacuum of information.

A (local) charity is in the community and knows what the community needs. The money is spent very efficiently, and there's not much of it to spend. They get taken advantage of less frequently, as well. Even injecting government into that situation breaks it. Once a large amount of money is a potential outcome, criminal activity is not far behind -- you see small organizations getting formed out of larger ones, spending 90% of donations on administration (spending all of that money on the appearance of being the right, small, charity ... because the real ones don't have the budget for lobbiests).

Re: Engineer Converts Used Van into Mobile Laundromat, Offers Free Loads to Homeless

#56

Post by skeeter2020 »

sandworm101 wrote: post #45
marshmallow_12 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

so you think he should stop? (answer: no)

I would have to know more about the situation. Providing a laundry service is good, but is a mobile service better than putting those resources into a fixed site? And, because this is private charity, how much of a tax deduction is this guy taking? Is he deducting the cost of the vehicle? If he is taking deductions then this activity is being effectively subsidized by taxpayers. That money might be better spent more…

It's doubtful that this one guy is a registered charity. As a private individual you can't just claim your expenses and actions as a deduction. It's also kind of sad that your first thought when you see someone who decided to do something in his own way help your big concern is he's "inefficiently using tax deductions for his personal project". Maybe you should examine your own contributions?

Re: Engineer Converts Used Van into Mobile Laundromat, Offers Free Loads to Homeless

#57

Post by skeeter2020 »

iancmceachern wrote: post #30
TimedToasts wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans will take care of their family and their community. This generally does not extend to a random homeless person.

Isn't a random homeless person part of their community?

they're part of the homeless community, but that doesn't help much. Homeless people do try to look out for each other, but lack of resources and personal demons make that hard. Community is far more than physical proximty; it's often the opposite where living near each other is a symptom of the underlying values, beliefs and shared traits. There are lots of communities in the same physical area.

Re: Engineer Converts Used Van into Mobile Laundromat, Offers Free Loads to Homeless

#58

Post by skeeter2020 »

dakna wrote: post #35
bayindirh wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how American culture evolved for self reliance over time, or what are the underlying causes for it. This is a question without any prejudice. I'm from another part of pale blue dot where the situation is exact opposite.

> what are the underlying causes I don't want to reduce this complex issues to just one cause, but https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant_work_ethic might help to understand at least parts of what we are seeing.

that's definitely part of what made America today through the initial settlement from Western Europe. A big challenge is that population growth is not coming from the same areas anymore, so expecting the same driving values is probabvly not going to work. True or not, the USA is still a beacon for opportunity and an escape from some pretty dire places. The lack of social safety systems is a polarizing but effective marketing tool for the people it attracts.

Re: Engineer Converts Used Van into Mobile Laundromat, Offers Free Loads to Homeless

#59

Post by skeeter2020 »

raisedbyninjas wrote: post #44
bayindirh wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how American culture evolved for self reliance over time, or what are the underlying causes for it. This is a question without any prejudice. I'm from another part of pale blue dot where the situation is exact opposite.

Only a few centuries ago many Americans lived on the frontier. Frontier life has been venerated by many since then. This gives rise to the popularity self-reliance, guns, rural and suburb living, small government and privatization, deregulation, car ownership over public transportation, etc.

Part of the American psyche is an emphasis on the individual over the state, and smaller tribes over larger communal groups. This creates the narrative of self-reliance and making it on your own, regardless if it is true or not.

Re: Engineer Converts Used Van into Mobile Laundromat, Offers Free Loads to Homeless

#60

Post by mdip »

xhrpost wrote: post #38
someperson wrote: post #8

It's sad that one of the most richest places on Earth (the San Francisco Bay Area) is unable to house, feed, clothe and provide drug/alcohol/mental health treatment to a mere 10,000 homeless people. I know homelessness is more than "houselessness", but it seems like a pretty simple problem to solve. Even considering that other states bus their homeless to Calfornia, fixing the 600,000 who sleep outside (and the 1.5 m…

This seems to be a common theme, that these problems are easily solved with just a few extra dollars. I used to subscribe to this conclusion thinking government/people just didn't care. Then I found out NYC spends $3billion on the homeless problem every year! Yes you read that right, billion with a B [1]. Granted our numbers are a bit bigger, around 80k [2]. But if you think 10k could easily be solved in SF, then 80k…

  >  easily solved with just a few extra dollars.
And to that I ask this: Let's assume I could actually deliver on this promise: If I showed up at your door offering to solve this problem for the low cost of 20% of your income for the rest of your life, would you give me that money?

There are two problems: (1) I can't guarantee I can deliver on this promise, and evidence would suggest that it's not a promise any person or group of people can make and (2) well, there's a variety of reasons a lot of us wouldn't accept that but it almost always falls into the category of "I worked for that money, I should get to choose what's done with it"[0]

Sadly, a lot of government programs designed to solve this problem become "ways for the government to employ people". The motivation to solve the problem is missing -- even stabilizing the problem would reduce the (yearly increase to the) budget for the program, which will bring the unions out. After a while, we'll start fighting "in public" about the destruction of this "valuable program" but behind closed doors the argument is about not pissing off a special interest/lobbiest of some kind.

[0] Yeah, some of us don't want to admit it but if you can't put your money where your mouth is, it's a really good idea to find out exactly why that is. If you feel it's wrong to feel entitled to the paycheck you worked for, and feel badly giving it away to something claimed a "life or death" cause, there's a moral contradiction taking place.

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