Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why I won't be using Groupon again.. A consumer perspective.

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 182 posts

Re: Why I won't be using Groupon again.. A consumer perspective.

#51

Post by Bud »

hvs wrote: post #44
contactdick wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a good point to consider - it must be hard for a waitress / waiter to swallow that their evening will take a pay cut because their boss has decided to get into social advertising.

She/he shouldn't have to. Groupon customers should be tipping on what the full amount would've been without the Groupon.

The onus could just as fairly be applied to Groupon itself as to its customers; shouldn't Groupon be helping the restaurants it does business with, by encouraging/reminding customers to tip servers fairly, and not harm the staff of its business partners?

Re: Why I won't be using Groupon again.. A consumer perspective.

#52

Post by contactdick »

mikbetk wrote: post #48

Do you really not understand why the waitress's demeanor changed the moment you mentioned using a coupon? Seriously? You know wait staff live on tips right? You know that people who use coupons are notoriously bad tippers right? There are very, very few people who feel they got a deal so leave a bigger tip. Most leave a tip based on what they paid, not on what the meal should have cost and people that use coupons tip…

Of course it's easy to understand and I sympathise with her but it doesn't make it enjoyable!

Re: Why I won't be using Groupon again.. A consumer perspective.

#53

Post by matwood »

patio11 wrote: post #9

I think you might be overestimating how much insight the waitress has into the business. It may be the case that this was a close, family-held restaurant and they have a daily pow-wow on cost of goods and marketing strategy, but I wouldn't bet that way. My guess? Groupon customers are poor tippers, either from adverse selection or because they either a) attempt to tip with leftover funny-money or b) tip based on the…

Groupon customers are poor tippers

And that stinks. I was a fine dining waiter at one point in my life and lived on tips. Because of that I always tip on the full value of the meal regardless if I have a gift card or coupon.

Re: Why I won't be using Groupon again.. A consumer perspective.

#54

Post by mikbetk »

bdhe wrote: post #46
hnsmurf wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Groupon customers are definitely poor tippers. I've known a number of waiters to complain about it. The problem is they tip on the Groupon price, not the full price, and are thus tipping something like 40% of what they should be.

The problem is they tip on the Groupon price, not the full price, and are thus tipping something like 40% of what they should be. I am not intimately familiar with the tipping culture (at least in the US), but here are some genuine questions: Is there an inherent reason you tip on the full price? Is it a tax? If tipping is to support staff wages does that mean waiters who serve fancier higher priced food items are en…

Yes, it's a tax thing. A lot of restaurants base your taxes on your gross sales, assuming you will get 10-15% in tips. Coupon deductions are not calculated in this gross.

Re: Why I won't be using Groupon again.. A consumer perspective.

#55

Post by contactdick »

hvs wrote: post #44
contactdick wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a good point to consider - it must be hard for a waitress / waiter to swallow that their evening will take a pay cut because their boss has decided to get into social advertising.

She/he shouldn't have to. Groupon customers should be tipping on what the full amount would've been without the Groupon.

Agreed she/he shouldn't have to but from one everyone is saying it sounds like that is the reality.

Re: Why I won't be using Groupon again.. A consumer perspective.

#56

Post by glenngillen »

patio11 wrote: post #9

I think you might be overestimating how much insight the waitress has into the business. It may be the case that this was a close, family-held restaurant and they have a daily pow-wow on cost of goods and marketing strategy, but I wouldn't bet that way. My guess? Groupon customers are poor tippers, either from adverse selection or because they either a) attempt to tip with leftover funny-money or b) tip based on the…

I took the same Groupon deal with a similar outcome (although we stated from the outset we had a voucher so no awkwardness about stuff we'd have to pay extra for). That said:

* This is in London, which doesn't have the same "tipping culture" as the US. Sure hospitality jobs don't pay great, but both my wife and I have worked them in the UK and you can definitely get by without tips. Getting snippy about a drop in tips is nowhere near as justified here.

* We each bought a cocktail before ordering (£8 each x 6)

* As is becoming the norm in London, "optional 12.5% service charge" (good luck ever opting out of it though) was a separate line item on our receipt and it was calculated off of the face value.

* I specifically checked the terms of the offer and the menu options prior to buying the voucher. Despite choose from "the tapas menu" you actually get to choose from "the Groupon version of the tapas menu". The latter being about half the size.

* I left an extra tip at the end mainly because I know the economics for the merchant on running Groupon deals. In hindsight neither the service not the "special" treatment you get as a Groupon customer warranted it.

Because of their attitude I won't be back, that's the cost for making an assumption about me as a customer. I'm still undecided whether I'll use Groupon again though. Maybe seeing this insight into this restaurant was a good thing?

Re: Why I won't be using Groupon again.. A consumer perspective.

#57

Post by patio11 »

bdhe wrote: post #46
hnsmurf wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Groupon customers are definitely poor tippers. I've known a number of waiters to complain about it. The problem is they tip on the Groupon price, not the full price, and are thus tipping something like 40% of what they should be.

The problem is they tip on the Groupon price, not the full price, and are thus tipping something like 40% of what they should be. I am not intimately familiar with the tipping culture (at least in the US), but here are some genuine questions: Is there an inherent reason you tip on the full price? Is it a tax? If tipping is to support staff wages does that mean waiters who serve fancier higher priced food items are en…

IAmerican tipping culture: there is a near-involiate presumption that wait staff gets tipped N% of the order. Customary practice recently is N is 20. Theoretically, tips are tied to service received. In practice, variation from societal norms is vanishingly rare in polite company.

Waiters in higher priced restaurants do make better tips as a consequence of this. That might matter if the culture were designed. It was not, it merely came to be.

FYI, apart from suffering social opprobrium, the big reason to always tip is that wait staff are taxed on your imputed tip whether you give it or not. This leads to compelling social justice reasons to tip even if one does not share the culture.

Re: Why I won't be using Groupon again.. A consumer perspective.

#58

Post by raganwald »

My perspective is that there is a systemic disconnect between what serves the restaurant's interests and what serves the staff's interests. A Groupon promotion may help fill empty seats and sell off perishable inventory, but that may not be a benefit for the staff that work for tips.

This is a massive problem for the consumer, because the promotion is for some specific food and drinks, but not for service. If the restaurant is unable to motivate the staff to like the deal, you may have to negotiate separately ("I know these deals can be a PITA, but we intend to tip on the face value of our meal"). This isn't the customer's fault, of course, and I sympathize with the OP for crossing this restaurant off his list: Why return to a restaurant that doesn't work out how to make their staff happy about the promotion?

A bigger question is whether this is an isolated incident or something to expect when dealing with similar deals. From what I know about the way small restaurants are managed, I would expect this to happen on a fairly regular basis.

One possible solution: The fine print of the deal could levy a 15% gratuity on the face value. Customers who want the freedom to tip less should exercise the freedom to pay the face value of the food and beverages. If I was offered a $100 dinner for two for $40 plus $15 mandatory gratuity, I don't think I'd bark about it.

Re: Why I won't be using Groupon again.. A consumer perspective.

#59

Post by burgerbrain »

bdhe wrote: post #46
hnsmurf wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Groupon customers are definitely poor tippers. I've known a number of waiters to complain about it. The problem is they tip on the Groupon price, not the full price, and are thus tipping something like 40% of what they should be.

The problem is they tip on the Groupon price, not the full price, and are thus tipping something like 40% of what they should be. I am not intimately familiar with the tipping culture (at least in the US), but here are some genuine questions: Is there an inherent reason you tip on the full price? Is it a tax? If tipping is to support staff wages does that mean waiters who serve fancier higher priced food items are en…

I tip because that's how my society operates. I tip well^ because it means I get above-par service.

^well is relative to what they expect, so this is where the quality of the restaurant is factored in by myself.

Re: Why I won't be using Groupon again.. A consumer perspective.

#60

Post by JeremyBanks »

bdhe wrote: post #46
hnsmurf wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Groupon customers are definitely poor tippers. I've known a number of waiters to complain about it. The problem is they tip on the Groupon price, not the full price, and are thus tipping something like 40% of what they should be.

The problem is they tip on the Groupon price, not the full price, and are thus tipping something like 40% of what they should be. I am not intimately familiar with the tipping culture (at least in the US), but here are some genuine questions: Is there an inherent reason you tip on the full price? Is it a tax? If tipping is to support staff wages does that mean waiters who serve fancier higher priced food items are en…

This doesn't address your question about culture, but the one time I used Groupon the sheet we printed out with the coupon on it specifically asked that we tip on the full price.
Post reply on HN