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Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'

reuters.com

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Re: Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'

#51

Post by Cu3PO42 »

corndoge wrote: post #19
fasteddie31003 wrote: post #9

The pandemic has made me believe we need to be greater consiquentalists in our polices. It's pretty obvious that on the whole the AstraZeneca vax will save more people than are killed from the side effects. We don't not live in a 0 risk existence.

Is that obvious? If you have the choice between self quarantining and trying to avoid contracting a virus that, if contracted, has a low percentage of killing you, vs choosing to get a vaccine that also has a low percentage of killing you, why would you choose the vaccine?

Maybe because one probability is significantly lower than the other. Maybe because you just can't self quarantine because you cannot work from home. Maybe because you need to take care of other family members and don't want to put them at risk.

There's a lot of good reasons for choosing a vaccine even if the risk isn't strictly zero. And you also need to remember that receiving vaccination isn't mandatory. If you personally aren't comfortable with the risks you don't have to get vaccinated.

This makes me skeptical of the suspension, but I'm not an export on these matters and haven't done enough research to claim to have done my due diligence, so I'll refrain from either advocating for or against this step.

Re: Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'

#52

Post by clawoo »

jansan wrote: post #37

How many countries have stopped AZ fo far? - Denmark - Norway - Ireland - Netherlands - Iceland - Bulgaria - Romania (only partly, see child comment) Am I missing any?

> - Romania

Romania hasn't, only for specific lot numbers that were reported by Italy and Denmark as problematic.

Re: Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'

#53

Post by gotoeleven »

fasteddie31003 wrote: post #9

The pandemic has made me believe we need to be greater consiquentalists in our polices. It's pretty obvious that on the whole the AstraZeneca vax will save more people than are killed from the side effects. We don't not live in a 0 risk existence.

As we have learned over the last year, doing a cost benefit analysis on anything related to covid is the equivalent of drowning your grandmother in a bathtub.

Re: Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'

#54

Post by ketzu »

throaway_484888 wrote: post #12
dash2 wrote: post #3

This seems like a case where the precautionary principle is misleading. Maybe there's a small chance that the vaccine can be harmful for a few people. Meanwhile there's a large chance that not having the vaccine can increase your chance of getting COVID. Doesn't even a week's delay in vaccinating predictably increase the number of deaths in a country, perhaps by a large amount given the nonlinear dynamics of epidemic…

> I'm assuming that these decisions aren't political and are genuinely being taken for medical reasons. I mean, I sure hope so. It's the EU's punishment for the UK leaving. I don't think anyone really thinks otherwise.

> It's the EU's punishment for the UK leaving. I don't think anyone really thinks otherwise.

Then call me the first one, I seriously doubt this is the reason.

Re: Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'

#55

Post by [deleted] »

dcolkitt wrote: post #21
giantandroids wrote: post #8

You do have to wonder if some of this is politically driven. Germany are losing hundreds of life's a day, while in the meantime the UK has administrated 23 million doses (not sure the ratio of those that were AstraZeneca) and not recorded a single fatality or adverse reaction and are seeing infection rates / deaths drop. I can understand caution under normal circumstances, but nothing is normal right now.

Well, you see fifty years a few thousand birth defects occurred because one drug was approved too fast. Therefore millions now have to needlessly die while perfectly good vaccines go stale.

[deleted]

Re: Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'

#56

Post by detaro »

maxerickson wrote: post #10

It seems the rate of these conditions isn't any different for the vaccinated than for the population (last bit of the article makes this point). What's the thought process here?

Yeah, this seems to make no sense from the outside and the data I've seen, which all puts this in fairly normal ranges. And not enough transparency into the why then IMHO. But well, transparency into why this is supposed to make sense is something sorely missing from German covid policies for a long time now...

EDIT: as pointed out elsewhere, the official press release gives us that there has been new data in the past few days with a specific concern, that's at least some info.

Re: Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'

#58

Post by hef19898 »

mns wrote: post #14
high_derivative wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same thought, I think this is part of political cover for the failing (in comparison) vaccination effort's in continental Europe. 'See, we were right not to vaccinate this fast' For the downvoters: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/mar/15/eviden...

If someone would say this about COVID, they would be downvoted into oblivion for spreading unfounded conspiracy theories. It's already 6 countries in the EU that reported issues until now.

Yeah, and I rightly so if you ask me. AZ seems so to get all the heat in the press. I really wonder why, but as soon as you start looking at the numbers, there never seems to be something to it.

First it was efficiany with elderly in the study, were the numbers were totally misunderstood. Then it was overall effectiveness, then prevention of severe cases. The list goes on. In the meanwhile, the press is reporting every single rash people get with AZ.

EDIT: Just checked, they found 7 cases of thrombosis in the brain, out of 1.6 million vaccinated people. Well, we'll see how that develops.

Re: Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'

#59

Post by virgilp »

fasteddie31003 wrote: post #9

The pandemic has made me believe we need to be greater consiquentalists in our polices. It's pretty obvious that on the whole the AstraZeneca vax will save more people than are killed from the side effects. We don't not live in a 0 risk existence.

In EU at least plenty of Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are still incoming, so there are actually alternatives to AZ.

Do not forget that these vaccines are still very new, plus there's the possibility of a production issue with the AZ vaccine that affects only part of the production; I wouldn't say it's "politically-motivated" or a dumb idea to pause AZ vaccinations until one does a deeper investigation; I personally chose to avoid AZ due to a history of strokes in my family, I preferred to reserve a spot on the Moderna list. Better safe than sorry.

Re: Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'

#60

Post by jansan »

jansan wrote: post #37

How many countries have stopped AZ fo far? - Denmark - Norway - Ireland - Netherlands - Iceland - Bulgaria - Romania (only partly, see child comment) Am I missing any?

South Africa stopped using it in February, because it did not work well against their mutant. Not sure about current status.
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