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Guy makes a knife from scratch. He has to make a smelter first.

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Re: Guy makes a knife from scratch. He has to make a smelter first.

#51

Post by DrCatbox »

RomP wrote: post #47

I sometimes wonder how long would it take for the civilization to re-create the current level of technology, if all the material artifacts disappear one day: books, computers, robots, factories, even hammers. If all that remains is the current level of knowledge in the heads of 7bln people, how long would it take from the stone age to Core i7, heart transplants and Boeing 787s? And how much different the world would…

Technology is also a sociological concept, it is in the minds of the people, it is not merely the products such as blades and core i7s. All those products of technology are the result of a specific culture, it is the result of specific societies and the interaction and relationships that people have with each other. For technology to happen a society requires permanent hierarchical organization (enslavement where the earliest examples) and strict divison of labor. Resources are merely a by-factor, which a society can workaround, when you dont have X to do Y, you make Z from A and do Y.

Its an interesting question, if you removed the artifacts, and kept the same organizations and relationships, my guess is that would mean almost no change. Instead of doing calculations with computers you would do computations with computers. (The first computers where human). If you removed the books and tax-software, still the tax people would walk around collecting their taxes and "inventing" bookkeeping. And we, fellow programmers, would still ponder of nice mind tricks and think of their solutions then apply them in society.

Re: Guy makes a knife from scratch. He has to make a smelter first.

#52

Post by DrCatbox »

cletus wrote: post #36
dstein wrote: post #9

It's reasons like this, that I really wonder if someone from today were to time travel into the past if anything they know would be useful at all. Medieval people would probably think we're all idiots.

If you're into sci-fi I urge you to read Vernor Vinge's A Fire Upon the Deep [1]. It doesn't have a lot to do with this except that it has a fairly primitive society that has high-tech dumped on it in two different camps and what eventuates is an arms race. In the same vein is CJ Cherryh's Foreigner series [2], which tells the story of human colonists who end up lost, unable to find their way home. They instead find…

You dont need sci-fi to ponder what happens when a superior technological culture meets a less technologicaly developed culture.

Look at Europes "discovery" of the americas, and for that matter, look at how the nomads of the world react when they are even today being "discovered" by us civilized people. You could study anthropolgy if you are into this sort of thing, its not really sci-fi, this is the real deal.

Re: Guy makes a knife from scratch. He has to make a smelter first.

#53

Post by rcfox »

thesteamboat wrote: post #37
InclinedPlane wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An average person would not be overly useful, but a skilled and knowledgeable individual would have much to offer. A chemist can make nylon, gunpowder, matches, or plastic from relatively easily obtained chemicals even in ancient times, for example. There are also lots of other little tricks that are just as or more valuable. Things like germ theory, medicine, cooking, electricity, etc. In roman times it would have b…

I'm curious as to what easy advances there were in cooking. Do you mean something along the lines of better heat sources or do you mean recipes?

Making sure to eat sources of vitamin C to prevent scurvy, having women who intend to get pregnant eat more folate to help their babies' brains...(Not to mention not drinking alcohol while pregnant!)

Re: Guy makes a knife from scratch. He has to make a smelter first.

#54

Post by pyrhho »

thesteamboat wrote: post #37
InclinedPlane wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An average person would not be overly useful, but a skilled and knowledgeable individual would have much to offer. A chemist can make nylon, gunpowder, matches, or plastic from relatively easily obtained chemicals even in ancient times, for example. There are also lots of other little tricks that are just as or more valuable. Things like germ theory, medicine, cooking, electricity, etc. In roman times it would have b…

I'm curious as to what easy advances there were in cooking. Do you mean something along the lines of better heat sources or do you mean recipes?

- Better Bread? Historically bakers had extremely short lives because without mixers they had to breathe in the flour dust all day. And the bread would have been extremely unevenly cooked (no temperature-regulated ovens), as well as being extremely salty (no preservatives).

- Pasta? Pasta is absolutely amazing. It is an extremely dense source of calories, which doesn't rot, is super-compact, and only requires water and heat to cook. Great for armies on the march.

- Coffee? Coffee's been around a long time, but high-pressure espresso is relatively new.

Other fairly basic staples are newer than you might think, like Potatoes (16th Cent.), Or Tomatoes (17th Cent.)

Edit: Also limes for sailors.

Re: Guy makes a knife from scratch. He has to make a smelter first.

#57

Post by peterquest »

s00pcan wrote: post #45
mumrah wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Relevant: http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Carl_Sagan#Cosmos_.281980.29

"If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSgiXGELjbc

Re: Guy makes a knife from scratch. He has to make a smelter first.

#58

Post by m_eiman »

dstein wrote: post #9

It's reasons like this, that I really wonder if someone from today were to time travel into the past if anything they know would be useful at all. Medieval people would probably think we're all idiots.

The 1632 book series is about an American town transplanted back into Europe in 1632. Since it's a whole town they bring more than just knowledge, but it's still fairly interesting to read. In my opinion the first or maybe first two books are enjoyable, after that it turns into too many layers of "what if".

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1632_series

Re: Guy makes a knife from scratch. He has to make a smelter first.

#59

Post by InclinedPlane »

pyrhho wrote: post #54
thesteamboat wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious as to what easy advances there were in cooking. Do you mean something along the lines of better heat sources or do you mean recipes?

- Better Bread? Historically bakers had extremely short lives because without mixers they had to breathe in the flour dust all day. And the bread would have been extremely unevenly cooked (no temperature-regulated ovens), as well as being extremely salty (no preservatives). - Pasta? Pasta is absolutely amazing. It is an extremely dense source of calories, which doesn't rot, is super-compact, and only requires water a…

Pasta is an amazing invention. It's functionally similar to hard tack except it can be prepared to an edible state very quickly with merely boiling water and also tastes much better.
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