The Miseducation of Americas Elites • Hacker News Board

Re: The Miseducation of Americas Elites

#51

Post by inglor_cz » Sun, Mar 14, 2021, 9:06 PM UTC

ceilingcorner wrote: post #43

inglor_cz wrote: post #3

This really sounds like late Communist Czechoslovakia to me, where lying at school was an obvious norm, everyone knew what was publicly unspeakable and which one of your colleagues was a snitch. The difference is that by late 1980s there were few true believers. Those who held the power and dictated the indoctrination standards were mostly tired pragmaticists who were in power to be in power and little else. There we…

Yup. Americans really ought to spend more time studying the USSR and related states. This stuff isn't new and it doesn't end well.

This is a well-written article by Natan Sharansky on the realities of having to be a "double-thinker" in the former USSR.

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/arts-letters/articles/nat...

Re: The Miseducation of Americas Elites

#52

Post by inglor_cz » Sun, Mar 14, 2021, 9:10 PM UTC

legacynl wrote: post #41

padastra wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My parents grew up during the Cultural Revolution. I'm slightly modifying some terminology so the parallels become more clear (original terminology was in Mandarin anyways, so...): It started off as pro-equality and for the people. Then, any evidence that you are outperforming others in a "capitalist" way became evidence that you are anti-equality and therefore against the people. This quickly devolved into merit not…

There are some pretty big and critical differences you're glossing over. - The forcing of ideals in Yugoslavia was done 'top-down', by people with power, not bottoms-up. - Citizens have no authority over others. - The United States is a democracy, with separation of political powers. I hope you understand that this makes the comparison to Yugoslavia nonsensical.

One of the problems with your argument, legacyln, is, that few things can really be done 'top-down'. Even tyrants rely on a subset of dedicated collaborators down there who are absolutely willing to spy and terrorize their neighbours either for a small material gain or out of ideological zealotry.

The experience of the world behind the Iron Curtain says that you must really be wary of whom you trust. The greatest force helping tyrants stay and grow is an unassuming balding man next door who collects all your shortcomings and informs on you regularly. Without a million people like him, every oppressive apparatus would be overwhelmed by the sheer amount of work needed to control an entire nation.

Whatever happens on Twitter each day really resembles the struggle sessions and witch hunts of yesteryear. At the end of the day, authoritarianism is carried on by will of a certain subset of the people, not just by authorities.

Re: The Miseducation of Americas Elites

#53

Post by inglor_cz » Sun, Mar 14, 2021, 9:15 PM UTC

alphabettsy wrote: post #40

inglor_cz wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would make sense in the streets of Ferguson, but it does not explain why well-off, mostly white coastal elites bought the idea hook-and-sinker. John McWhorter argues that wokeness is simply an ersatz religion, filling up empty spiritual space left by previous creeds. And freshly minted religions tend to be strident and punishing. https://www.persuasion.community/p/john-mcwhorter-the-neorac...

Who is John McWhorter that I should give credence to what he argues? The beginning of his article does not lead me to believe he’s capable of offering a balanced and nuanced view. His poorly constructed arguments based on his own “Third Wave Antiracist tenets” are a pretty run of the mill strawmans restating the position of those he disagrees with in an absurd way that clearly misses the point intentionally.

Who is Ibram X. Kendi or Robin DiAngelo?

I tried to read their works; I cannot see the reason for their popularity. They fail at writing and reasoning at the same time. Perhaps people just bought their books as a kind of moral atonement, not for reading.

These two are social Lysenkos of the 2020s. I will stick with McWhorter and his straightforward logic.

Re: The Miseducation of Americas Elites

#54

Post by Dracophoenix » Sun, Mar 14, 2021, 10:14 PM UTC

drno123 wrote: post #24

the_why_of_y wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is your argument that the ethnic conflict and genocide in several former Yugoslav republics in the 1990s was caused by an education system indoctrinating people with anti-racist attitudes? I didn't grow up in Yugoslavia, so please elaborate a bit how that worked, because I don't understand.

Not anti-racist but anti-capitalist. In Yugoslavia no one could own a business that employs more than 8 people, so all bigger companies were owned by the government, because anti-capitalist. As a result, management of all but micro business was selected not based on ones success and merit, but based on political connections, and in addition to that, there was no competition. The products mostly sucked and companies w…

Didn't Slovenia have a looser grip on economic activities and private ownership than the other republics?

Re: The Miseducation of Americas Elites

#55

Post by alphabettsy » Mon, Mar 15, 2021, 4:56 AM UTC

inglor_cz wrote: post #53

alphabettsy wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who is John McWhorter that I should give credence to what he argues? The beginning of his article does not lead me to believe he’s capable of offering a balanced and nuanced view. His poorly constructed arguments based on his own “Third Wave Antiracist tenets” are a pretty run of the mill strawmans restating the position of those he disagrees with in an absurd way that clearly misses the point intentionally.

Who is Ibram X. Kendi or Robin DiAngelo? I tried to read their works; I cannot see the reason for their popularity. They fail at writing and reasoning at the same time. Perhaps people just bought their books as a kind of moral atonement, not for reading. These two are social Lysenkos of the 2020s. I will stick with McWhorter and his straightforward logic.

I couldn’t tell you, haven’t read them, but a brief look tells me what you’re getting at. You used his name as if it carried some significance.

Sound logic would be based off of arguments actually made, but that’s not what McWhorter does.