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Wayland in 2021

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Re: Wayland in 2021

#51

Post by numpad0 »

k_sze wrote: post #10

Does ibus work seamlessly in Wayland yet? As a person who regularly needs to input French, Chinese, and Japanese, besides English, I tried Wayland in Kubuntu 20.04 and a non-working ibus was a complete showstopper for me.

What's with IBus and IBus-centric IME switching being sub-optimal for better part of past decade or so[1], yet being pushed from non-CJK regions? Usually I don't even GNOME and just go with whatever fcitx plays with, so not an issue for me, not angry or anything but curious what's happening "up there" consistently[2][3][4].

1: https://cpplover.blogspot.com/2013/10/ibus-15_21.html

2: https://uwabami.junkhub.org/log/20210224p01.html#p01

3: https://uwabami.junkhub.org/log/20210312.html

4: https://lists.debian.or.jp/pipermail/debian-devel/2021-Febru...

Re: Wayland in 2021

#52

Post by tyfon »

gurkendoktor wrote: post #44
Decabytes wrote: post #39

I don’t know how I feel about Wayland. On the one hand it’s being made by x11 devs so I think they more than anyone else know why they would need to start from scratch over improving x11. On the other hand, moving away from x breaks so many things and I haven’t heard anyone singing it’s praises yet about how happy they are to use it. I understand apps are breaking because they relied on features of x that were securi…

Besides security concerns, mixed-DPI setups are such a major pain point with X11 that many people who use a laptop with additional screens would probably switch to Wayland just for that alone. That's a large demographic.

Do any desktop system handle mixed DPI well?

I mainly use Linux so I don't know, but one of my work laptops have windows on it and it freaks out every time I connect it to a 4k monitor.

At least in linux I can use triggers and xrandr [1] to manage it even if it's not pretty, never figured out how to do it automatically in windows.

Edit: I am using KDE/Qt apps for 99% of my gui stuff. Gnome etc might be worse.

[1] http://wok.oblomov.eu/tecnologia/mixed-dpi-x11/#therandrway

Re: Wayland in 2021

#53

Post by vially »

Decabytes wrote: post #39

I don’t know how I feel about Wayland. On the one hand it’s being made by x11 devs so I think they more than anyone else know why they would need to start from scratch over improving x11. On the other hand, moving away from x breaks so many things and I haven’t heard anyone singing it’s praises yet about how happy they are to use it. I understand apps are breaking because they relied on features of x that were securi…

> and I haven’t heard anyone singing it’s praises yet about how happy they are to use it

As is often the case, people are much quicker to go to forums to complain about issues than to sing praises so I'm here to add a data-point trying to balance the scale.

I've been using Wayland for a few years now and it does everything I need it to do. I understand that everyone has different needs and maybe it doesn't work for everyone, but then again, neither did X11.

Some of the things that work out of the box in Wayland which didn't work in X11:

- proper HiDPI and mixed DPI support (e.g.: you can finally move windows from one screen to another in mixed DPI setups and everything scales properly)

- variable refresh rates/FreeSync (for all apps and all screens)

- no more tearing

- no more hot-plugging issues

Re: Wayland in 2021

#54

Post by mrweasel »

freeone3000 wrote: post #17
shmerl wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best option if you need modern Linux desktop is to ditch Nvidia and to switch to AMD.

For compute as well? Maybe once ROCm is actually supported by their newest cards, but this two-year lag on compute support does not inspire confidence. Neither Navi nor Big Navi are supported -- the last card with ROCm support is Vega .

Will a little stupid, you could add an AMD card to your workstation and use that to drive your display. Then use the Nvidia card for compute only. That would also free up some memory and compute resources on the Nvidia card.

You can even get an old model of the AMD card. It only need to run the desktop stuff, so you can buy a five year old used card.

Re: Wayland in 2021

#55

Post by vially »

tyfon wrote: post #52
gurkendoktor wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Besides security concerns, mixed-DPI setups are such a major pain point with X11 that many people who use a laptop with additional screens would probably switch to Wayland just for that alone. That's a large demographic.

Do any desktop system handle mixed DPI well? I mainly use Linux so I don't know, but one of my work laptops have windows on it and it freaks out every time I connect it to a 4k monitor. At least in linux I can use triggers and xrandr [1] to manage it even if it's not pretty, never figured out how to do it automatically in windows. Edit: I am using KDE/Qt apps for 99% of my gui stuff. Gnome etc might be worse. [1] htt…

> Do any desktop system handle mixed DPI well?

This works today out-of-the-box in Wayland as long as the applications are Wayland native (e.g.: not being run through XWayland).

Re: Wayland in 2021

#56

Post by andrewaylett »

Decabytes wrote: post #39

I don’t know how I feel about Wayland. On the one hand it’s being made by x11 devs so I think they more than anyone else know why they would need to start from scratch over improving x11. On the other hand, moving away from x breaks so many things and I haven’t heard anyone singing it’s praises yet about how happy they are to use it. I understand apps are breaking because they relied on features of x that were securi…

I've been running Wayland for a few years now, and while I wouldn't say I've had a _perfect_ experience, I don't think I've had a time when logging out and trying an X session worked any better.

X has always had niggles, which I don't miss.

So right now, it's very much at the same level as many other system features: consistently works, and maybe the reason I'm not singing its praises more loudly is because I've come to take that for granted.

Re: Wayland in 2021

#57

Post by sz4kerto »

tyfon wrote: post #52
gurkendoktor wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Besides security concerns, mixed-DPI setups are such a major pain point with X11 that many people who use a laptop with additional screens would probably switch to Wayland just for that alone. That's a large demographic.

Do any desktop system handle mixed DPI well? I mainly use Linux so I don't know, but one of my work laptops have windows on it and it freaks out every time I connect it to a 4k monitor. At least in linux I can use triggers and xrandr [1] to manage it even if it's not pretty, never figured out how to do it automatically in windows. Edit: I am using KDE/Qt apps for 99% of my gui stuff. Gnome etc might be worse. [1] htt…

Windows handles it perfectly (anecdotal). Not sure what do you mean by freaking out.

Re: Wayland in 2021

#58

Post by scaladev »

Decabytes wrote: post #39

I don’t know how I feel about Wayland. On the one hand it’s being made by x11 devs so I think they more than anyone else know why they would need to start from scratch over improving x11. On the other hand, moving away from x breaks so many things and I haven’t heard anyone singing it’s praises yet about how happy they are to use it. I understand apps are breaking because they relied on features of x that were securi…

I am a happy Wayland user, and have been for a long time. There are many more out there. You don't often hear us because we don't spend every waking hour shitting on Xorg and praising Wayland for how good it is (maybe we should?)

>I wonder if it will ever reach the adoption level of x11

It will, considering that Xorg is effectively no longer maintained and its developers have switched to working on Wayland protocols long ago, which they have stated on multiple occasions.

Somehow I doubt that the loudmouths you often hear will step up to maintain X.

Re: Wayland in 2021

#59

Post by opan »

mulle_nat wrote: post #46

I was really looking forward to Wayland, when I moved to Linux. It was then said to be right around the corner. That was six years ago. If the current state of Wayland is as bare-bones as depicted in the article, it's just sad. And as there is no support for OBS on the horizon, it's a non-topic for me. And I never liked X11 to begin with...

OBS is working already with wlrobs.

https://hg.sr.ht/~scoopta/wlrobs

Re: Wayland in 2021

#60

Post by my123 »

MaxBarraclough wrote: post #41
curt15 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CUDA is an industry standard, and AMD's lack of support is why NVIDIA enjoys a monopoly in the deep learning community.

Is this due to CUDA being a technically superior product, or is it just that it's entrenched? OpenCL/AMD is a usable and mature platform, right?

OpenCL as implemented by AMD is definitely not very usable.

AMD themselves aren’t really committed to OpenCL given the state of their OCL 2.x drivers and went to their own AMD-only path (ROCm/HIP), which is broken... (and only supported on a single gen of customer GPUs today, Vega) It doesn’t even work on RDNA or RDNA2 officially today.

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