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The internet didn’t kill counterculture – you just won’t find it on Instagram

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Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture – you just won’t find it on Instagram

#51

Post by notsureaboutpg »

partyboat1586 wrote: post #38
helen___keller wrote: post #18

I think this is the biggest takeaway for me: > We saw this dynamic metastasize in the wake of George Floyd’s murder, when well-intentioned claims of “silence is violence” (recalling the powerful 1987 ACT-UP “Silence = Death” campaign) spiraled into calling out individuals with even a small following who hadn’t come forward with a timely public statement of solidarity or remorse. Yet public posts were subject to popul…

>spiraled into calling out individuals with even a small following who hadn’t come forward with a timely public statement of solidarity or remorse. >timely public statement Being a public figure sounds exhausting.

This happened to random 18 year old college kids who were just not active on social media. I saw it first hand. I actually saw an entire group of girls let go of one of their friends who didn't post in support of BLM along with them. She had like 60 followers on Instagram (mostly family).

Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture – you just won’t find it on Instagram

#52

Post by planet-and-halo »

bluefirebrand wrote: post #29
everdrive wrote: post #6

Still reading the article, but this is an interesting blurb if nothing else: "To be truly countercultural today, in a time of tech hegemony, one has to, above all, betray the platform, which may come in the form of betraying or divesting from your public online self." I hadn't thought of boycotting much of popular online space as being counter-cultural. It's an interesting thought.

> I hadn't thought of boycotting much of popular online space as being counter-cultural. It's an interesting thought I think the interesting part is that it's kind of counter-culture but it itself is not really a culture at all. There are no groups (as far as I know) for people who eschew social media. They don't meet up at the pub and talk about it, they don't have any kind of organization, even a loose one. People…

As one of these people, totally agree. I don't really have people I sympathize with over this stuff (except a few friends with whom its a minor topic of conversation) or anything I'd consider a culture. Mostly I just deleted my accounts and moved on. On the other hand, despite the lack of other people to commiserate with, it does feel a little countercultural insofar as I'm doing something different from most people, and it sticks out on occasion.

Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture – you just won’t find it on Instagram

#53

Post by bitwize »

mdoms wrote: post #10

The truth is that today the counter-culture is the right wing dudes (and ladies) who won't be beholden to trigger warnings, won't treat particular words as if they have magical powers and won't try to get you fired if you openly believe that male and female are real concepts. If your cursor is hovering over the downvote button right now then that's natural - counter culture isn't popular. By definition.

No, that's not the counterculture. Those are just bigots butthurt by the fact that society is starting to enforce norms of human decency which the counterculture has promoted through example for decades.

Meanwhile a child who stands up for trans people is being censored. As in, actual censorship, by the government: https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-commentary/canc...

Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture – you just won’t find it on Instagram

#54

Post by edrxty »

I think this ties in well with all the recent discussion around advertising and its effect on internet discourse. To become counter-cultural now inherently means foregoing ad revenue supported platforms, which inherently means you lose audience.

Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture – you just won’t find it on Instagram

#55

Post by keiferski »

Charles Taylor, the philosopher, covered much of this about twenty years ago with far less snark and buzzwords. I strongly recommend reading The Ethics of Authenticity. It’s all about the trend of individualism and how it precedes social media by...centuries.

https://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674987692

Social media is no longer authentic so you’re seeing a slowly growing backlash against it.

https://seoulphilosophy.wordpress.com/2015/06/19/charles-tay...

Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture – you just won’t find it on Instagram

#56

Post by drak0n1c »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #37
helen___keller wrote: post #18

I think this is the biggest takeaway for me: > We saw this dynamic metastasize in the wake of George Floyd’s murder, when well-intentioned claims of “silence is violence” (recalling the powerful 1987 ACT-UP “Silence = Death” campaign) spiraled into calling out individuals with even a small following who hadn’t come forward with a timely public statement of solidarity or remorse. Yet public posts were subject to popul…

> From well-compensated marketing teams, to hordes of self-interested proselytizers (see: bitcoin), to propaganda teams looking to influence public opinion, mainstream dark forest sites simply shift the balance of power from the platform itself to the most motivated and well-funded members of the platform This is making the perfect the enemy of the good. Also, voting systems take care of a lot of this, because naked…

Voting systems often amplify propaganda spam. Every day r/science has multiple posts upvoted to the top with titles exaggerating findings, and/or linking to shoddy studies.

Upvote/Downvote is very susceptible to headlines that exploit confirmation bias, and bot activity.

Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture – you just won’t find it on Instagram

#58

Post by lamp_book »

bluefirebrand wrote: post #29
everdrive wrote: post #6

Still reading the article, but this is an interesting blurb if nothing else: "To be truly countercultural today, in a time of tech hegemony, one has to, above all, betray the platform, which may come in the form of betraying or divesting from your public online self." I hadn't thought of boycotting much of popular online space as being counter-cultural. It's an interesting thought.

> I hadn't thought of boycotting much of popular online space as being counter-cultural. It's an interesting thought I think the interesting part is that it's kind of counter-culture but it itself is not really a culture at all. There are no groups (as far as I know) for people who eschew social media. They don't meet up at the pub and talk about it, they don't have any kind of organization, even a loose one. People…

Yes, I think that's an important distinction - you need a critical mass of people sharing in countercultural behavior/practices in some way to get an actual counterculture. Many people have eschewed social media for one reason or another but not in some unified way that I know of.

Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture – you just won’t find it on Instagram

#59

Post by TameAntelope »

helen___keller wrote: post #18

I think this is the biggest takeaway for me: > We saw this dynamic metastasize in the wake of George Floyd’s murder, when well-intentioned claims of “silence is violence” (recalling the powerful 1987 ACT-UP “Silence = Death” campaign) spiraled into calling out individuals with even a small following who hadn’t come forward with a timely public statement of solidarity or remorse. Yet public posts were subject to popul…

What you're saying is and isn't true. One example of a countercultural movement that's been in the news recently is the DDoSecrets leaks/hacks (they get upset if you aren't clear that they're hackers). They've got a strong Twitter presence that helps them get their message out, but they conduct no "real" business on Twitter.

So a counterculture can use the mainstream platforms, but they choose to do so only as a microphone, not as a gathering place.

Edit: That said, one of the members of a related group just (as in, after I wrote this but before editing was made unavailable) got banned from Twitter, so maybe they can't actually use the platform as a microphone for very long. It looks like the law is getting involved, specifically related to the Verkada hack.

Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture – you just won’t find it on Instagram

#60

Post by astrea »

mdoms wrote: post #10

The truth is that today the counter-culture is the right wing dudes (and ladies) who won't be beholden to trigger warnings, won't treat particular words as if they have magical powers and won't try to get you fired if you openly believe that male and female are real concepts. If your cursor is hovering over the downvote button right now then that's natural - counter culture isn't popular. By definition.

Ah yes, the playground bully martyr defense: "Anyone who disagrees with me is just proving my point."
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