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Comparison of Postsurgical Scars Between Vegan and Omnivore Patients

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

51–60 of 112 posts

Re: Comparison of Postsurgical Scars Between Vegan and Omnivore Patients

#51

I've actually noticed this effect on myself too. It's very pronounced in fact. I have a bad habit of biting my cuticles. I also happen to observe lent, effectively going vegan for 50 days every year. Typically my cuticles heal the next day, or two at most. But every single time I enter lent, suddenly my cuticles take more than a week to heal the same amount. The difference is very obvious, to me at least.

curious what kind of lent you observe that's for 50 days not 40.

Re: Comparison of Postsurgical Scars Between Vegan and Omnivore Patients

#52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was completely vegan for a couple of years. I went that way to avoid gallbladder surgery - it worked, I had no gallbladder pain on a vegan diet. I Supplemented with B12 and Vitamin D as those are typically low to non-existent in the vegan diet. But I started to have problems with my teeth chipping - hadn't had that before. I did some calculations and realized that there was no way I was getting anywhere close to th…

I can't remember the exact reference here, but I remember a research paper which showed that veganism is associated with an increased risk of cholecystitis. This is despite the fact that a typical vegan diet is low in fat (which is the typical reason a vegan diet is promoted for gallbladder control). In fact, if I remember correctly, the 'lack' of fat was also the main risk; in that the occasional fact prompted a mor…

In my case I was found to have a gallstone - I was having occasional bouts of serious pain in the upper right abdominal region that were becoming more frequent. Ultrasound revealed gallstone.

But in the couple of weeks before I could get the ultrasound I was essentially eating a vegan diet because I wasn't sure what was causing the pain and I wanted to just concentrate on only eating plants to minimize possible triggers. And then when the results came back and the surgeon told me it was time to schedule the surgery, I realized that I hadn't had any pain on my minimal diet. And so decided to give veganism a try for a month or so to see what would happen - and I continued to have no pain.

I think what it comes down to is that some animal fats cause the gallbladder to contract more vigorously - especially red meat, eggs and dairy in my case would trigger pain. I've heard about the issue you're talking about as it's been suggested that since you no longer have vigorous contractions of the gallbladder the gall tends to pool up there. On the other hand I've also heard bitter foods and beets help with this issue.

Re: Comparison of Postsurgical Scars Between Vegan and Omnivore Patients

#53

Animal protein seems to be good for wellbeing, and there's a lot of overlap between veganism, wellness awareness, and alternative food choices. Given that and the already-existing ability to create collagen/gelatin in a lab that's suitable for vegans, I've always wondered why nobody has managed to get it to market as a food. There's already a growing group of wellness-focused people who don't want typical non-gelatin…

IIRC from back when I was a vegan, and assuming what I heard was correct at the time, there was a single, very popular foreign supplier of "vegan" gelatin that was eventually exposed as a fraud. The gelatin they were selling was of animal origin. There were no competing products. Any new product will have to overcome the residual mistrust from that incident.

Found a source for the story that matches my recollection: https://aaww.org/the-vegan-marshmallow/

Re: Comparison of Postsurgical Scars Between Vegan and Omnivore Patients

#54
When I was younger and training very heavily in some sports, I experimented a bit with different diets. Bottom-line the more meat heavy my diet, the faster I would heal from injuries -- radically so. For a while I went on a low-carb diet and ate a very heavy animal protein diet. I shed pounds, had absolutely unstoppable stamina, had far fewer injuries, stretching improved, basically never bruised, and healed from sports injuries that would have taken weeks in days. I felt like Wolverine.

I also felt like a grease grenade all the time and got tired of the diet which is why I stopped, but it was definitely superhuman for me.

I felt the worst in this sports context was when I experimented with a vegan/vegetarian diets. The effects were virtually the exact opposite. I'm sure with a nutritionist and more dedication I could have overcome many of these issues, but I found building a decent diet harder and required more effort.

Re: Comparison of Postsurgical Scars Between Vegan and Omnivore Patients

#55
post #48

Animal protein seems to be good for wellbeing, and there's a lot of overlap between veganism, wellness awareness, and alternative food choices. Given that and the already-existing ability to create collagen/gelatin in a lab that's suitable for vegans, I've always wondered why nobody has managed to get it to market as a food. There's already a growing group of wellness-focused people who don't want typical non-gelatin…

> Given that and the already-existing ability to create collagen/gelatin in a lab that's suitable for vegans, I've always wondered why nobody has managed to get it to market as a food. Outside of some pastry applications (eg. mirror cake glazing), it's pretty much only used for Jell-O and aspic, neither of which are particularly trendy at the moment. There's gelatin and collagen in soups as part of making broth, but…

When I was last in the USA, I was very surprised to discover all the yoghurt in the store I went to contained gelatin.

Re: Comparison of Postsurgical Scars Between Vegan and Omnivore Patients

#56
post #48

Animal protein seems to be good for wellbeing, and there's a lot of overlap between veganism, wellness awareness, and alternative food choices. Given that and the already-existing ability to create collagen/gelatin in a lab that's suitable for vegans, I've always wondered why nobody has managed to get it to market as a food. There's already a growing group of wellness-focused people who don't want typical non-gelatin…

> Given that and the already-existing ability to create collagen/gelatin in a lab that's suitable for vegans, I've always wondered why nobody has managed to get it to market as a food. Outside of some pastry applications (eg. mirror cake glazing), it's pretty much only used for Jell-O and aspic, neither of which are particularly trendy at the moment. There's gelatin and collagen in soups as part of making broth, but…

Ah, you may not be aware of this. Collagen supplements are trendy with the wellness crowd as a protein powder, and bone broth is too under closely related reasoning. People who buy these things are thinking, "I want my skin and tissues to be healthier, so I'm going to buy collagen or bone water that is full of it."

This study seems like it bolsters the reasoning. The market for both of these options is currently closed off to vegans.

Re: Comparison of Postsurgical Scars Between Vegan and Omnivore Patients

#57
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is unusually damning to veganism-as-it-is-practiced if not to veganism itself. I don't think a sample size of 21 is especially damning. Nor do I think that the study's authors would come to that conclusion either.

Depends. Emotive language aside (i.e. "damning") the low sample size is actually "more evidence" in the presence of a convincingly low p value. It means that this particular sample of 21 people would have to be extremely atypical under the null hypothesis of no difference. Therefore, given its low sample size (and thus wide standard error), it is 'some' evidence that the effect size is also probably quite large.

That doesn't sound right. The reason sample size is important is because the larger the group, the less likely the group is to be atypical. I don't think you can turn that around and then say "this group is small, which itself is evidence, because otherwise it would have to be extremely atypical to show a difference." That's completely circular.

The p-value is still the important thing because the p-value is itself affected by the sample size.

Re: Comparison of Postsurgical Scars Between Vegan and Omnivore Patients

#58
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not what the senior colorectal doctor at the royal free told me last year.

Your best interest may differ from doctors best interest when treating you (not getting sued, following guidelines, getting paid for not rocking the boat) So document yourself: medline is free, and with sci-hub, you can get the full versions of anything EDIT: actually, no, don't document yourself. Ignorance is bliss. Why would I even care? After all, it's your life! And I care even less than your doctor, since we don…

Yeh my amateur research is going to be better than their experience.

Re: Comparison of Postsurgical Scars Between Vegan and Omnivore Patients

#59

Strange way to word the two patient types: vegans as opposed to omnivores. Vegans are still omnivores, they just stopped eating animal products because of beliefs. I also smelled once a vegan cake. It's a medical miracle they can survive on such a diet.

> Vegans are still omnivores,

No they aren't.

From New Oxford English Dictionary:

> omnivorous

> adjective (of an animal or person) feeding on a variety of food of both plant and animal origin.

Re: Comparison of Postsurgical Scars Between Vegan and Omnivore Patients

#60
post #51

I've actually noticed this effect on myself too. It's very pronounced in fact. I have a bad habit of biting my cuticles. I also happen to observe lent, effectively going vegan for 50 days every year. Typically my cuticles heal the next day, or two at most. But every single time I enter lent, suddenly my cuticles take more than a week to heal the same amount. The difference is very obvious, to me at least.

curious what kind of lent you observe that's for 50 days not 40.

If you count Sundays, it’s closer to 50 than 40.
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