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Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

swissinfo.ch

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Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#51

Post by Ericson2314 »

esja wrote: post #8

Quite a few people who voted against this did so purely because they didn’t want private companies controlling the system. If the proposal had been for the government to issue and control the identities, it may well have passed.

Yes, and that's a good thing. Balkanizing ID info between a gazillion government databases as we do in the US just creates inefficiency, and raises the thirst for more intensive surveillance to counter the inefficiency with which the data is used. (Consider the talk after 9/11 on the FBI and CIA not sharing info, and then we get the Patriot Act.)

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#52

Post by ILikeBikes »

Erlich_Bachman wrote: post #34
ILikeBikes wrote: post #24

[flagged]

Not sure if it is helpful to reduce every issue to a one-dimensional scale of capitalism/socialism. Particularly this specific issue is about privacy culture, corruptability of big tech, government and use of technologies, surveillance, etc... There are so many more societal and just plain epistemological axis than just socialism/capitalism.

That can also be read on the scale of "privatize anything because the state should just make 'laws'"/"have a public sector to offer basic services to citizens", that is a debate in Europe

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#53

Post by MikeUt »

matthewmacleod wrote: post #21
wirrbel wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It amazes me how people buy into the right-wing narrative about politicians having invited refugees to Europe, when in fact, the EU is trying hard to keep them from entering in the first place. What might have prevented the refugee crisis might have been if the middle-east region had not been destabilised in the previous decades. And part of that destabilisation is due to the US Republican party pushing for an invasi…

Drives me up the fucking wall. Spend years bombing the shit out of countries and selling arms to despots, then having the gall to complain when refugees from the situation you encouraged turn up on your doorstep. You solve the “refugee crisis” by fostering peace and prosperity in countries that don’t have it, not by spreading lies about it.

It was the US that pushed for and did (is doing?) most of the bombing, and Europe that got hit with refugees.

But even if it were the same country, it's not the same people - the wars were pushed from the top [1], the resistance to immigrants from the bottom ("populism").

[1] https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/feb/27/bush-a...

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#54

Post by Ericson2314 »

jeffrallen wrote: post #44
eertami wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine if you had to print a paper form and mail or deliver it to the local Government for even the simplest of administrative tasks. Because that is life in Switzerland.

Well yes, but lots of Switzerland is rural, and dropping off paperwork is no more bother than picking up a loaf of bread. Lots of us like seeing our neighbor, who happens to also be our greffe communal.

No one is saying you can't see your neighbor if you don't have errands to run.

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#55

Post by wombatmobile »

Switzerland has an awesome electoral system [1]. Instead of being ruled by a president or a prime minister who can be polarising, divisive, or selective, Switzerland has an Executive Council.

The 7 member Executive Council is composed of the top 7 candidates from each election. The chairperson of the executive council rotates each year, so that the top 4 vote winners each get a turn at being chairperson.

This means that different social and political priorities get implemented in turn. It also means the way the government works is more cooperative, because each council member, including the chairperson, knows there will be a new chairperson next year.

So, if a pro-business candidate places 1st, and an environment candidate 2nd, and a social welfare candidate 3rd, and a libertarian candidate 4th, it is in all their interests to cooperate and create legislation that serves all of their interests as much as possible. Instead of disregarding the environment, the pro-business council member is encouraged to develop green business initiatives that will be supported for the full 4 year term under the different chairs.

The system creates a leadership team that looks for win-win, rather than a sole victor who can abuse majority rule.

[1]. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Council_(Switzerland)

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#56

Post by fyleo »

jariel wrote: post #47

This is bad populism. It's understandable people fear Google/FB etc., but an entity contracted by the state to do digital ID services is not going to be selling your phone number if doing so would put them out of business and land them in jail. Sadly, the notion of basic digital ID would be very useful for so many things and maybe even help with privacy if content providers switched to this kind id vs. social logins.…

The entity in question does not have the best reputation.

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#57

Post by ghaff »

dheera wrote: post #33
xiphias2 wrote: post #2

Switzerland has this in its constitution: Article 13: Right to Privacy 1. All persons have the right to receive respect for their private and family life, home, and secrecy of the mails and telecommunications. 2. All persons have the right to be protected against the abuse of personal data. Also the constitution can be only changed by voting.

> All persons have the right to receive respect for their private and family life, home, and secrecy of the mails and telecommunications. I really wish the US had this. Here, even simple acts like registering to vote or getting a driver license, bank account, credit card means your personal residence gets leaked to spammers, scammers, data brokers, and eventually, stalkers. There really should be laws saying that per…

The information in voter registration isn't "leaked." It's public as a matter of record. (The details probably vary by state.) So are real estate purchases. (Although the latter can be gotten around in various ways.) There are tradeoffs between transparency and privacy.

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#58

Post by vinni2 »

bondarchuk wrote: post #5

Almost every politician wants more power over citizens. That is why a binding popular referendum is necessary in cases like these. Congrats to the Swiss people, I am a little bit jealous.

Unfortunately such referendum don’t scale well though.

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#59

Post by [deleted] »

matthewmacleod wrote: post #21
wirrbel wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It amazes me how people buy into the right-wing narrative about politicians having invited refugees to Europe, when in fact, the EU is trying hard to keep them from entering in the first place. What might have prevented the refugee crisis might have been if the middle-east region had not been destabilised in the previous decades. And part of that destabilisation is due to the US Republican party pushing for an invasi…

Drives me up the fucking wall. Spend years bombing the shit out of countries and selling arms to despots, then having the gall to complain when refugees from the situation you encouraged turn up on your doorstep. You solve the “refugee crisis” by fostering peace and prosperity in countries that don’t have it, not by spreading lies about it.

[deleted]

Re: Switzerland votes against electronic ID system provided by private companies

#60

Post by 101008 »

layoutIfNeeded wrote: post #50

They are also incredibly xenophobic (i.e. Japanese levels).

Care to expand this? I went to Switzerland once (I was young, 20ish) and I spent only one day at Geneva. It didn't look xenophobic, but very strict. I am interested in knowing more about this, thanks!
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