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Framing 101

frameworksinstitute.org

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Re: Framing 101

#51

Post by yboris »

slibhb wrote: post #49
yboris wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

George Lakoff's Metaphors We Live By is one of my favorite books. It's a great reminder about how powerful words can be at subliminally guiding our thoughts. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphors_We_Live_By Since the predominant implicit metaphor behind "argument" is battle/war/conflict, we intuit that there must be a "winner" and that we must "defeat" the "opponent" and other nasty implications. Because of this I…

I've read the book and I find the first half great. It demonstrates the ubiquity of metaphor in language. But its reach seriously exceeds its grasp. The book makes all kinds of bizarre claims. For example: > the predominant implicit metaphor behind "argument" is battle/war/conflict, we intuit that there must be a "winner" and that we must "defeat" the "opponent" and other nasty implications The reason we use war as a…

I agree that the metaphor of war/battle/conflict is appropriate in numerous scenarios of arguments.

I took away from the book the (I think) important point that if you have different goals (than fight) but use the word "argument", many people can buy into the (wrong) metaphor and you are now cross purposes.

Re: Framing 101

#52

Post by digitaltrees »

slibhb wrote: post #49
yboris wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

George Lakoff's Metaphors We Live By is one of my favorite books. It's a great reminder about how powerful words can be at subliminally guiding our thoughts. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphors_We_Live_By Since the predominant implicit metaphor behind "argument" is battle/war/conflict, we intuit that there must be a "winner" and that we must "defeat" the "opponent" and other nasty implications. Because of this I…

I've read the book and I find the first half great. It demonstrates the ubiquity of metaphor in language. But its reach seriously exceeds its grasp. The book makes all kinds of bizarre claims. For example: > the predominant implicit metaphor behind "argument" is battle/war/conflict, we intuit that there must be a "winner" and that we must "defeat" the "opponent" and other nasty implications The reason we use war as a…

That’s a valid point. But many “arguments” are not about a decision and are better thought of as exploration or discussion yet they are labeled “ARGUMENT” and that creates a posture exactly as you describe which results in the parties fighting to win rather than engaging in a curious dialogue about all elements of the debate.

Re: Framing 101

#53

Post by aidenn0 »

cacois wrote: post #9
beaconstudios wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Framing is just perspective. Our conversation is a debate on how to frame framing. Trying to change someone's perspective isn't always propaganda, and of course you can change your own prospective through reframing and introspection.

There's a fine line between presenting your ideas in a clear and effective manner, and "framing" the presentation in a way that makes it more likely others will agree with you (a manipulative technique). Think of a good salesman: if the product's values sold itself, the salesman wouldn't really matter - but they do. Often people using these manipulative techniques don't even realize they are manipulating - they just…

This is why my dad dislikes sales people. His job is to pick the best tool for the job, and if 3 competing sales people come to sell him a tool, at least 2 of them have as their sole job making picking the best tool for the job harder.

Re: Framing 101

#54

Post by aidenn0 »

colllectorof wrote: post #3

Wow, I meant to write a semi-satirical guide to successful propaganda for a while now. Apparently, people professionally doing propaganda published one for real. https://www.frameworksinstitute.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/... "Celebrating 20 years of social science for social change." You can't make this stuff up. And I bet 90% of people here don't even understand why this slogan is fucked up. The notion that the pur…

... Wow. The about section from that PDF:

> The FrameWorks Institute is a nonprofit think tank that advances the mission-driven sector’s capacity to frame the public discourse about social and scientific issues. The organization’s signature approach, Strategic Frame Analysis®, offers empirical guidance on what to say, how to say it, and what to leave unsaid. FrameWorks designs, conducts, and publishes multi-method, multi-disciplinary framing research to prepare experts and advocates to expand their constituencies, to build public will, and to further public understanding. To make sure this research drives social change, FrameWorks supports partners in reframing, through strategic consultation, campaign design, FrameChecks®, toolkits, online courses, and in-depth learning engagements known as FrameLabs. In 2015, FrameWorks was named one of nine organizations worldwide to receive the MacArthur Award for Creative and Effective Institutions.

Re: Framing 101

#55

Post by digitaltrees »

tenpoundhammer wrote: post #48
beefield wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because of this I often make explicit when I converse that I'm engaging in a "collaborative exploration" and not an fight about who is right. Have you found that successful? One of my big struggles in my social life is that I am quite curious how things are and more often than not my discussion/arguments are interpreted somehow so that I supposedly want to show my "opponent" is wrong. And really, most of the time,…

I had the same problem my whole life up until about two years ago. For whatever reason my default mindset was that when I heard something I didn't understand or was curious about, I would explain my understanding and frame that against what I thought was wrong about their understanding. I then expected them to respond in a similar way. To the majority of people this seems confrontational and argumentative, so everyon…

Curiosity requires a degree of comfort in being wrong and confidence in yourself. Unfortunately many people think if they are “wrong” or don’t know something they are stupid and so asking questions makes them feel that they are wrong and thus stupid. Once you empathize with them it’s easier to navigate just as you discovered.

Re: Framing 101

#56

Post by dang »

VBprogrammer wrote: post #2

I was really hoping this was about wood frame house construction.

There's probably an obscure and wonderful web page about that which has never been submitted to HN before.

Re: Framing 101

#57

Post by dang »

jeffmcmahan wrote: post #25

How did this make it to the top of HN?

It's certainly an interesting topic. It's not good to submit home pages of blogs or content sites to HN though. The discussion has nothing to sink its teeth into beyond the generic theme of the site, and that leads to shallower discussion.

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor...

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor...

It's much better to submit the most interesting article from a site, the one that goes into the most unexpected specifics. I looked at a bunch of the articles on this site and they all seem pretty lightweight, unfortunately.

Re: Framing 101

#58

Post by andrei_says_ »

qntty wrote: post #23

I took a class in college on cognitive linguistics taught about that last couple of decades of cognitive science research around framing. The field that we studied was relatively small so we became familiar with the major researchers in the field. The major figure was George Lakoff. These people claim to use a proprietary method called Strategic Frame Analysis. I was curious to see if I recognized any names under the…

I highly recommend Lakoff’s lecture on framing and metaphors in political speech and discourse.

Changed how I listen - to anyone - forever.

https://youtu.be/5f9R9MtkpqM

His framelab podcast is also excellent.

Re: Framing 101

#59

Post by tschiller »

dang wrote: post #57
jeffmcmahan wrote: post #25

How did this make it to the top of HN?

It's certainly an interesting topic. It's not good to submit home pages of blogs or content sites to HN though. The discussion has nothing to sink its teeth into beyond the generic theme of the site, and that leads to shallower discussion. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor... https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor... It's much better to submit the most interesting arti…

Their site has a lot of great content and research, but it's spread out across PDFs, many of which are single-page handouts for practitioners.

For example, here's their in-depth framing memo on STEM education: https://www.frameworksinstitute.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/...

It's available a couple links in from the corresponding "Toolkits" page: https://www.frameworksinstitute.org/toolkit/wiring-up/

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