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“User engagement” is code for “addiction”

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Re: “User engagement” is code for “addiction”

#51

Post by CivBase »

edmundsauto wrote: post #21
CivBase wrote: post #10

If a service is monetized with ads, then the user is the product. We say that a lot but I think a lot of people still don't understand it, especially outside the tech sphere. "Engagement" isn't about building a better service; it's about serving more ads. "Driving user engagement" should be seen as synonymous with "psychologically manipulating users to use the service so they see ads".

Why not “providing value to users so they use the service so they see ads”? A lot of providing value is marketing and engagement. It can be manipulative and it can also be beneficial to the user - both should be accounted for.

Why invest in "providing value to users" when psychological manipulation is so much cheaper?

Re: “User engagement” is code for “addiction”

#52

Post by 8note »

hector_vasquez wrote: post #6

"User Engagement" is now indeed code for "Addiction," but not because user engagement has changed in any meaningful way. It's because society has been transforming terms that used to have medical/clinical definitions to mean something completely different. PTSD and OCD are two more examples.

What did the tobacco industry used to call addiction? It can't be that new.

Also, I didn't know that addiction was originally a clinical term. til

Re: “User engagement” is code for “addiction”

#53

Post by foofoo4u »

bosswipe wrote: post #32
HNfriend234 wrote: post #26

Social media is a perfect example of where this is used. I know countless people that are literally addicted to it. They want to see every new update continuously and the social media apps are designed to do this through notifications. I saw this clear as day when I was at jury duty. We were waiting for the court to get back into session. There was a girl sitting next to me on the bench and I noticed about every 5 mi…

> Then look at all the mental health problems young people are having these days Is there any evidence that mental health is worse than for previous generations?

Two sources that show anxiety and depression are on the rise with the youth.

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2019/02/20/most-u-...

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/07/12/a-growing-n...

Re: “User engagement” is code for “addiction”

#54

Post by theplague42 »

tppiotrowski wrote: post #50
mywittyname wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I know the common refrain is "Delete Facebook!" but that's the equivalent of abstinence-only education. We need to start talking about how to configure Screen Time on iOS, or how to use Facebook's built-in tools to hide content you don't want to see. I see it more akin to the opioid crisis. Just like drug manufactures shouldn't be pushing opioids as a way to deal with minor pain and depression because they know it…

Can you provide some reading material about the scientists that get paid millions of dollars to keep you hooked? This is the first time I’ve heard of scientists involved.

Literally any analyst or data science job related to growth or user engagement on social media.

https://research.fb.com/category/data-science/

Re: “User engagement” is code for “addiction”

#55

Post by rapind »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #29

I don't like the current trend of social media apps burying users under push notifications, calls to action, and other engagement hooks. However, there's a second, parallel problem adding fuel to the fire: The more we talk about overindulgence in social media (or Netflix, or video games, or fast food) as an act perpetrated by evil corporations on us helpless individuals, the less sense of individual agency we give ou…

We’re just witnessing advertising’s race to the bottom. Eventually everything published is questioned because all forms of media are incentivized to push drivel for eyeballs.

The optimist in me see’s how ridiculous and blatant the drivel is becoming and suspects we’ll achieve some sort of collective enlightenment before we extinct ourselves. A smarter media then emerges (timing is everything here) eschewing advertising dollars in favour of a more consumer friendly model.

Then again, I’m probably being naive.

Re: “User engagement” is code for “addiction”

#56

Post by faitswulff »

andrewla wrote: post #47

This kind of semantic game has to stop. If you water down the meaning of "addiction" enough then you can say that anything is "addictive" and with that, you can carry over all the connotations of the word. Then people start saying "I'm addicted to coffee" and "I'm addicted to bread" and before you know it people saying "I'm addicted to heroin" are met with "well, why don't you just stop, like I did with coffee for a…

People can be neurochemically addicted to coffee. I suspect the same can be said of social media.

Re: “User engagement” is code for “addiction”

#57

Post by itsjustmath »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #29

I don't like the current trend of social media apps burying users under push notifications, calls to action, and other engagement hooks. However, there's a second, parallel problem adding fuel to the fire: The more we talk about overindulgence in social media (or Netflix, or video games, or fast food) as an act perpetrated by evil corporations on us helpless individuals, the less sense of individual agency we give ou…

Humane tech has an informative page detailing how to “take control”: https://www.humanetech.com/take-control

Re: “User engagement” is code for “addiction”

#58

Post by mdpopescu »

HNfriend234 wrote: post #26

Social media is a perfect example of where this is used. I know countless people that are literally addicted to it. They want to see every new update continuously and the social media apps are designed to do this through notifications. I saw this clear as day when I was at jury duty. We were waiting for the court to get back into session. There was a girl sitting next to me on the bench and I noticed about every 5 mi…

> If that isn't addiction, I don't know what is.

In my case, boredom. I normally fix that by reading books on my Kindle, but if I don't have it for some reason, the phone is a good substitute.

Re: “User engagement” is code for “addiction”

#59

Post by Nasrudith »

CivBase wrote: post #51
edmundsauto wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not “providing value to users so they use the service so they see ads”? A lot of providing value is marketing and engagement. It can be manipulative and it can also be beneficial to the user - both should be accounted for.

Why invest in "providing value to users" when psychological manipulation is so much cheaper?

Because people tend to drop you and forget about it when you only provide clickbait and doomscroll fodder when they realize that you have nothing of value to provide.

Re: “User engagement” is code for “addiction”

#60

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

legerdemain wrote: post #41
AdmiralGinge wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>We have to start reminding people that they are in control of their decisions, and that they can take steps to reduce their social media usage to healthy levels. I know the common refrain is "Delete Facebook!" but that's the equivalent of abstinence-only education. We need to start talking about how to configure Screen Time on iOS, or how to use Facebook's built-in tools to hide content you don't want to see. I coul…

I agree! The economic effects of Brexit are difficult or impossible to measure, so they're not worth worrying about. On the whole, Brexit was good for British people because it gave them a feeling of action and momentum, like they had a real "hand in history." Britain has never been as energized and optimistic as it has been post-Brexit. In the same way, I bristle at the suggestion that I'm not rational enough to res…

Your experience is far from universal. Twitter has made my life measurably worse: I'm less happy, have less free time, react less charitably to people I disagree with. I can look through my comment history and identify the periods where I was most active on Twitter, because I'm constantly flying off the handle at people for no good reason.
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