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Ismail al-Jazari – the medieval 'Father of Robotics'

nationalgeographic.com

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Re: Ismail al-Jazari – the medieval 'Father of Robotics'

#51

Post by Haga »

heavenlyblue wrote: post #38
artem247 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> economic conditions do not change someones quest for knowledge In my country science almost ceased to exist after the fall of Soviet Union. So economic conditions do play a role. The western Age of Reason in XVIII also has relationship to complex changes in the society - rise of merchant class, acceptance of usury, etc. And I would say that "whole population avoids science like a plague" would be a strong overstat…

I would like to see what the OP would do if they were suddenly forced to live in the Stone Age. Would they spend time doing philosophising or restoring the civilisation and actually feeding themselves?

Laugh all you want, but you can do both. Farming work is repetitive and allows the mind to wander.

Re: Ismail al-Jazari – the medieval 'Father of Robotics'

#52

Post by dingoegret »

2Gkashmiri wrote: post #2

in my family there has been a simple question being raised for as many years i can remember but there has never been a satisfactory answer yet. "if early muslims had all the science, mathematics, geography, philosophy and all fields of science including hundreds of scientists who laid down the foundations of modern science with their works, what happened 800 years ago that all that science just vanished?" Then years…

This is an extremely reductive and anti-Muslim revision of history. Spread by hate groups and anti-Muslim ideologue types. Explanation for the current state of affairs is a vastly complex subject. Ranging from the Mongols, Seljuks, destruction of learning centers, lack of coal, competition with colonialism. There are so many reasons that aren't simply some cartoon evil religious man had said "science bad".

Re: Ismail al-Jazari – the medieval 'Father of Robotics'

#53

Post by dingoegret »

keiferski wrote: post #17
christkv wrote: post #7

I’ve always wondered if the Ottoman Empire in many ways was the root of the problem as it traded stability of empire over anything else.

Al-Jazari lived centuries before the Ottomans existed. Otherwise, having studied the Ottomans extensively, I wouldn’t say they chose stability over anything else. Their slow downfall was due more to a gradual fossilization of their institutions. For example, the Janissaries went from a highly-trained elite force to essentially a social club that everyone wanted to join. The sultans themselves also gradually became le…

He is correct though. If you disagree, can you point me to information on what developments the Ottomans were responsible for in the Middle East and North Africa? For example, is there a reason the region of North Africa went from inhabiting several vibrant, busy trading centers. Small regional empires in their own right, to becoming a collection of fossilized fishing communities of a fraction of the population along the coast? Centuries of neglect? How is that Napoleon was able to invade and conquer Egypt, the heart of MENA and found it unimpressive and empty? Hardly the Egypt of yore.

Really, what advancements, cities, anything did the Ottomans contribute to the large landmass they governed over? All their effort was focused at Anatolia and Eastern Europe. If we're being honest, they were a colonial force to the rest of MENA for over 600 years while Europe was exponentially growing at every segment.

Re: Ismail al-Jazari – the medieval 'Father of Robotics'

#54

Post by 2Gkashmiri »

heavenlyblue wrote: post #38
artem247 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> economic conditions do not change someones quest for knowledge In my country science almost ceased to exist after the fall of Soviet Union. So economic conditions do play a role. The western Age of Reason in XVIII also has relationship to complex changes in the society - rise of merchant class, acceptance of usury, etc. And I would say that "whole population avoids science like a plague" would be a strong overstat…

I would like to see what the OP would do if they were suddenly forced to live in the Stone Age. Would they spend time doing philosophising or restoring the civilisation and actually feeding themselves?

imagine living in the stone age and finding yourself in ancient greece meeting a madman named plato and socrates

Re: Ismail al-Jazari – the medieval 'Father of Robotics'

#55

Post by 2Gkashmiri »

selimthegrim wrote: post #28
2Gkashmiri wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

thank you. I will be going through this book as early as possible.

Nitpick: “...as soon as possible” sounds more natural to native speakers Ulugh Beg’s observatory was what Ottomans’ short lived one was built to compete with

urrghh... i was "thinking" of writing "i will be devouring this book as fast as possible" because wink wink torrents but changed the wording because i didn't want to write the "t" word but yeah

Re: Ismail al-Jazari – the medieval 'Father of Robotics'

#56

Post by 2Gkashmiri »

selimthegrim wrote: post #39
idlewords wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What sounds most natural to native speakers is not correcting people's language unasked.

Fair enough, but he and I share a native non-English language, so I thought I was being helpful.

i often try to keep my language as close to british english but very sometimes there is a slip up. I try to avoid this though

Re: Ismail al-Jazari – the medieval 'Father of Robotics'

#57

Post by Haga »

you_know_the_ wrote: post #37
2Gkashmiri wrote: post #2

in my family there has been a simple question being raised for as many years i can remember but there has never been a satisfactory answer yet. "if early muslims had all the science, mathematics, geography, philosophy and all fields of science including hundreds of scientists who laid down the foundations of modern science with their works, what happened 800 years ago that all that science just vanished?" Then years…

I would say the crusade to blame for the decline of Muslims golden age. When the crusade started around 12 century, it brought devision among Muslims and Christians in places such as Iraq, Syria, Lebanon and Palestine. For centuries, Muslims, Christians and Jews lived next to each other and collaborated with each other but the crusade killed that friendship.

A friendship that comes with taxes and reduced rights, is the type of friendship you could have in the cotton fields of the south.

Re: Ismail al-Jazari – the medieval 'Father of Robotics'

#58

Post by selimthegrim »

2Gkashmiri wrote: post #56
selimthegrim wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair enough, but he and I share a native non-English language, so I thought I was being helpful.

i often try to keep my language as close to british english but very sometimes there is a slip up. I try to avoid this though

In Urdu the distinction is a little different and probably very seldom arises in the English sense (e.g. jaldi utho vs jaldi se utho when what is meant is like subah sawere (se) utho) so it's not your fault.

https://forum.wordreference.com/threads/hindi-urdu-early-to-...

Re: Ismail al-Jazari – the medieval 'Father of Robotics'

#59

Post by heavenlyblue »

2Gkashmiri wrote: post #54
heavenlyblue wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would like to see what the OP would do if they were suddenly forced to live in the Stone Age. Would they spend time doing philosophising or restoring the civilisation and actually feeding themselves?

imagine living in the stone age and finding yourself in ancient greece meeting a madman named plato and socrates

We're speaking of the degradation of our living conditions to the Stone Age, not an actual time travel into the past.
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