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Apple is professional, the web is amateur

dave.is

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Re: Apple is professional, the web is amateur

#51

Post by mikecane »

ramy_d wrote: post #33

"But wait a second," you say. "What about iLife? Isn't that all about amateur content?" Not quite. iLife helps normal people create things that feel professional. This is the definition of amateur. Notably, you can spot things done in their software, Keynote being a glaring example. It has made a template of what a presentation is supposed to look like on a mac. See when Jobs gives a keynote using Keynote wearing a b…

The devolution of MySpace has many factors, one of which was forcing people with older and less expensive (which, for the targeted audience, could have meant hand-me-down from parents) computers to upgrade their browsers, which just slowed everything down and ruined the aura of excitement it once had. Another factor was the intrusion of commerce-like Bulletins from "friends," asking you to leave the site to vote for them in some contest or other. There was a lot less social there than people give it credit for.

Re: Apple is professional, the web is amateur

#52

Post by lwhi »

This dichotomy is incorrect. We shouldn't be focusing on professionals vs. amateurs.

I think it's more useful to realise that Apple is controlling .. the web is (largely) open. Or to put it another way; Apple want to set norms .. the web wants crowds to set norms.

Re: Apple is professional, the web is amateur

#53

Post by mikecane »

feck wrote: post #48

Apple has tried amateur. The were very early out the gate with the podcast directory through iTunes. I think they were hoping that Podcasts + AppleTV would be an end-run around the cable companies and content providers. Turns out, not enough people wanted amateur podcasts. I'd wager that the easily availability of paid Hollywood content drives far more people to the iTunes ecosystem than the free and easily availabil…

Oh, that's an interesting point re: podcasts. I tried them and fled, even when they were done by people I liked. Just because you're doing something for free doesn't mean you can ignore basic things:

1) Have your material already prepared and organized 2) Clear your damn throat so you're not going to cough 3) If you do cough or burp, edit the damn thing out 4) Um, um, um is like nails on a blackboard, see #1

And there are people who disagree, but I found the "bandwidth" of podcasts to be lower than that of just reading. In the twenty minutes of talk time, there would be about 1/5th the amount of content I could have read in the same time span. Some people might have had visions they were doing the next talk radio, but none of them turned out to ever be as dramatic as the worst talk radio host.

Re: Apple is professional, the web is amateur

#54

Post by seabee »

smackfu wrote: post #32
bonch wrote: post #13

> It's common knowledge that Apple doesn't get the web in general and social in particular. It is? > In iMovie, you can take your professional looking photos and stitch them together with the Ken Burns effect. The name says it all right there. So you acknowledge that iLife is a counter to your point, and your only refutation is that there is a Ken Burns effect? I don't get it. The premise of this very short article s…

The other social failing I see pointed to is Game Center. Which is yet another separate social network that Apple runs, that doesn't particularly improve on the third party solutions, and is nowhere near as good as something like XBox Live. (Interestingly, Game Center doesn't look particularly professional. Apple tends to aim a bit low when they do aim for consumers, IMHO.) Ah, found a link: http://www.macworld.com/a…

That link was sorely missing a mention of Steam as an example of all those features done right (and he has no excuse given how long it's been on Mac...)

Re: Apple is professional, the web is amateur

#55

Post by cageface »

mikecane wrote: post #50
bonch wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair point, but a lot of people freak out over Ping for some reason.

I think people freak out over Ping because it has a lameness to it that people would have expected to originate from Microsoft or even Google -- but not from Apple. Its entire approach is actually anti-social. It's not web-based, it's locked into iTunes and is meant for customers. Customers are busy buying, they want "Give it to me and let me go enjoy it now." They connect with other people on the Internet, outside o…

This is the problem. iTunes may have been an acceptable interface five years ago but compared to the better "HTML5" web sites of today it feels slow, clunky, awkward and, most crucially, arbitrarily fenced in. Apple's challenge going forward will be to make interfaces that maintain their quality standards but with fuzzier boundaries with the rest of the web.

Re: Apple is professional, the web is amateur

#56

Post by derleth »

simonsarris wrote: post #2

I think you're correct that Apple is going to have to do things differently get some of their web properties to catch on, but I disagree heavily on your premise. For a counterexample, Facebook is professional-looking and very structured compared to MySpace, which in turn is very amateurish-feeling. There isn't any question which is preferred. Forums are amateurish. Stackoverflow is professional. I know where I'm goin…

Craiglist is the most amateur-looking website I've seen in a very long time.

Re: Apple is professional, the web is amateur

#57

Post by Terretta »

davidbalbert wrote: post #7
simonsarris wrote: post #2

I think you're correct that Apple is going to have to do things differently get some of their web properties to catch on, but I disagree heavily on your premise. For a counterexample, Facebook is professional-looking and very structured compared to MySpace, which in turn is very amateurish-feeling. There isn't any question which is preferred. Forums are amateurish. Stackoverflow is professional. I know where I'm goin…

My point wasn't that less professional looking websites succeed over more professional looking sites. It's Apple's focus on professional content (the select few) vs amateur content (all of us). I didn't mean to use amateur in a derogative sense. Amateurs are just people who don't get paid for their work. Re: Facebook/MySpace, I think this was a different dynamic. The thing facebook did right was tone down the design…

> Apple's focus on professional content vs. amateur content

On the contrary, Apple was founded on bringing professional or expert tools to regular people.

Apple ][ brought amateur computing into the home, Mac allowed amateur publishing.

Apple has made a killing on enabling amateurs. The iPad broadens that reach even more.

Re: Apple is professional, the web is amateur

#58

Post by [deleted] »

masklinn wrote: post #17
davidbalbert wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point wasn't that less professional looking websites succeed over more professional looking sites. It's Apple's focus on professional content (the select few) vs amateur content (all of us). I didn't mean to use amateur in a derogative sense. Amateurs are just people who don't get paid for their work. Re: Facebook/MySpace, I think this was a different dynamic. The thing facebook did right was tone down the design…

> If Apple had done Stack Overflow, I bet they would have had a team of certified experts to answer the questions and I don't think it would have worked very well. Something like Knol?

[deleted]

Re: Apple is professional, the web is amateur

#59

Post by Groxx »

Terretta wrote: post #57
davidbalbert wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point wasn't that less professional looking websites succeed over more professional looking sites. It's Apple's focus on professional content (the select few) vs amateur content (all of us). I didn't mean to use amateur in a derogative sense. Amateurs are just people who don't get paid for their work. Re: Facebook/MySpace, I think this was a different dynamic. The thing facebook did right was tone down the design…

> Apple's focus on professional content vs. amateur content On the contrary, Apple was founded on bringing professional or expert tools to regular people. Apple ][ brought amateur computing into the home, Mac allowed amateur publishing. Apple has made a killing on enabling amateurs. The iPad broadens that reach even more.

That's essentially the argument they've been making. I.e., Apple is focusing on things which make amateurs able to produce professional results, not amateurs producing amateur results (like Youtube).
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