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Windows Refund Day (1999)

marc.merlins.org

51–60 of 138 posts

Re: Windows Refund Day (1999)

#51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow nytimes.com looks drastically better than their current design.

That’s an archived/print-formatted design. It isn’t how the actual website looked in 1999 (CSS and the DOM weren’t advanced enough for those kinds of layouts then), unfortunately.

That's definitely 1999-era HTML and layout, except for the "This is an archived page" header, which is the only CSS on the page. The rest is all well-known tricks from the time: tables, image maps, a few embedded images. Heh, it even has the blockquote trick to pad the margins. Brings back some pretty horrid memories.

Re: Windows Refund Day (1999)

#53
I don't agree with them but I really miss the innocence, novelty of the internet, the spirit of the 90s that these photos and their protest represents. Nobody screaming with phones out filming each other, hive mind duking it out on Twitter with memes or Youtubers "exposing" each other, etc.

Re: Windows Refund Day (1999)

#54
I'm surprised that after all these years and even with a request to point out typos in the end, this misspelling has survived:

"...manufacturers would truely refund people..."

Re: Windows Refund Day (1999)

#55
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it was meant in regards to refunding the Windowx tax or buying computers with Linux preinstalled universally . Some like Lenovo were giving customers very hard time in getting a refund. And only very recently they started offering Linux preinstalled on some of their models for regular users. Some things like you mentioned above are of course much better today. But Windows tax situation is still a mess.

Yea, would have to say there's a lot more options now. It kind of seems like an elephant in the room, so want to call it out.... Is windows better or worse than macs/osx with Linux hostility? To me, it seems like Microsoft is less bad than Apple in this regard.

> Is windows better or worse than macs/osx with Linux hostility? To me, it seems like Microsoft is less bad than Apple in this regard.

I'm not sure what you mean.

Personally I like the Mac because it lets me run Unix stuff in a no BS way from the command line. It also runs Docker fine (haven't tried it on the M1).

It doesn't have something like WSL, but it doesn't really need it because you can compile most things for the MacOS command line.

Windows needs to run Linux well because it isn't Unix. The Mac is BSD Unix.

Re: Windows Refund Day (1999)

#56
post #3

Hey, I was there! I'm the one in the jean jacket, and the plastic penguins that people are holding up were mine (and I still have them!). Edit: I also still have my copy of the form letter that Microsoft handed out to us, which I transcribed at http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/dear-valued-customer.html

Thanks for sharing. I’m not a Microsoft apologist, but that “Dear Valued Customer” is a clever, corporatey middle finger. I’d have been so pissed :)

Re: Windows Refund Day (1999)

#57

I’m going to get downvoted into oblivion for this, but as a teenager who remembers when this happened, this always struck me as the absolute dumbest idea and the most useless of performative actions. First, it was sponsored by a VC-backed company (that had hired a documentary crew to capture their success, the ill-fated VA Linux Systems (which eventually became known as Geeknet) and the pretty poor propaganda documen…

I was there.

It was a lark. It certainly wasn't "sponsored". The dot com collapse was still to come. Nobody had any expectation of it changing anything, or getting refunds. At the time there was no possibility of getting an XPS13 with no OS, never mind with Linux supported. It got some attention for Linux, which practically nobody had ever heard of before they saw the picket signs. Linux didn't own server farms. There weren't server farms, unless you count racks of Sun pizza-boxes owned by whoever had software on running on them.

I guess you had to be there.

Re: Windows Refund Day (1999)

#58
post #3

Hey, I was there! I'm the one in the jean jacket, and the plastic penguins that people are holding up were mine (and I still have them!). Edit: I also still have my copy of the form letter that Microsoft handed out to us, which I transcribed at http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/dear-valued-customer.html

Is that you Seth?

Re: Windows Refund Day (1999)

#59
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what Amazon does. You buy things from their website and pay using their payment platform. The website doesn't make it obvious that you're actually buying from a third party ("sold by: X" is in small letters and gets lost between all the other details). And Amazon lump items from different vendors together in the same product page. I literally bought like 3 items on Amazon before realizing that not all items we…

I suspect that Amazon's argument is that they're more akin to eBay than they are to a supermarket. "We're not selling the product, we're only selling the floorspace" kind of thing. That's a lie, but it is certainly a blurrier line than the one for traditional retailers. I don't think it's a coincidence that Amazon has been very slow to enter markets with strong consumer law like Australia.

amazon's return policy is pretty good though AFAIK? 30 days no questions asked and they pay the return shipping. pretty sure the transaction gets reversed immediately, or at least as soon as the first scan on the return shipment. not a lot of retailers beat that.

Re: Windows Refund Day (1999)

#60
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You won't get downvoted, but you make a few factually questionable statements (disclosure: I worked at VA from 1998 to 2002): 1. VA didn't sponsor the event, but a chunk of the staff of the company's Sunnyvale HQ attended (and most of us were in the LUGs). VA didn't have any need at that stage to boost the IPO, as the fever was already brewing for companies like VA and Red Hat (both IPO'd that year, RH in August and…

I appreciate the corrections, though I’m not sure I agree with all of them. For the first point, I appreciate your correction. Still, the official writeup mentions that VA paid to make the shirts. And as you say, a huge number of employees were part of it. I still contend that the publicity of the event was beneficial for them, otherwise they wouldn’t have had employees there and they wouldn’t have had the community…

Yep, VA paid for the shirts from the Community groups petty cash fund, much as we paid for events at LUGs and other non-corporate events (my first two years at VA we gave out endless amounts of swag, distro CDs, various and sundry, but the team was almost totally an island unto itself. I just have a view that the events were too community-level to have had much of anything to do with the roadshow (and certainly from a professionalism standpoint would have been a distraction), and MS was already doing FOSS (as well as other *nix vendors, primarily SUN) a bunch of favors with its antics.

I was given the "official" spiel from Hall and it was otherwise not discussed much at VA (other than deciding very shortly afterwards that we all looked largely ridiculous, a position I still agree with - thankfully I'm in it for all of 1.5 seconds), and what I recall was that it was finished shortly after IPO and then sat for a while (because of lack of funds) waiting for final edits. At that stage you can't exactly go back to re-film much if you're already scrambling for cash.

"My only point was to push back on what I perhaps wrongly expected the narrative on HN to be, which is reflexive hagiography that doesn’t bear much resemblance to reality then or now." My feelings on pretty much all coverage of SV in general. But I am very biased, in that I love what I do in tech at the micro level but am ambivalent as to what the industry itself has morphed into. The beginning VA days were full of pre-HN/TechCrunch/Reddit sincere sense of wonder and opportunity to do something for the time radically different; in many ways VA succeeded given where the alumni landed (various key spots at Google, 23andMe, AWS, Samsung, Apple, AMD etc) and I still consider that period to be some of the most exciting of my career, if only for the sheer seat-of-pants ride it was.

I learned a lot and made numerous lifelong friends (and maybe a few lifelong enemies), but it was a helluva ride (cheesy events held in Fry's parking lots notwithstanding).

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